Today I finished my third reread of Dune. Of course it’s amazing, I immediately started rereading Messiah. But I did have a new perspective after seeing Part II and the ending Villanueve chose (Chani’s storyline especially). Honestly I’m not sure about the movie’s take on Chani, but I’m obsessed with the movie as a whole! And I personally feel, it may have a stronger ending line.

I’m sure many of you remember the final sentence of the book. But here’s my question: In a book with so many strong themes, why did Frank Herbert make this his closing line:

“We, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine— history will call us wives.”

Of course it’s Jessica who says this, the other main female character who is a concubine. The idea of concubines/multiple wives is so prevelant in Dune. During this read through I began to wonder what motivated that. And making it the “closing shot,” if you will, almost emphasizes this more!

Is there a theme I’m overlooking? Is it a reflection onto Herbert’s personal life or beliefs? Something from politics or history? I’ve looked into it a little and can’t really find anything. Any thoughts?

I've read the books, but this question pertains to the movie and the context, or lack thereof, provided there. Let me know if I missed something please:

1. It's evident Paul is highly moral and principled, declaring many times he is uninterested in power, only wishes to help the Freman, and does not want to play in part in the false prophecy narrative created by the GB.
2. Paul becomes more and more hopeless about the Freman's odds of survival.
3. He gives in to drinking the Water of Life SOLELY because it might provide a way to help the Freman, and at huge personal risk to himself, as he could die. In other words, he is willing to give his life to save the Fremen & Chani.
4. After drinking the WOL, he reveals there is only one slim course of action where the enemies will not prevail over the Fremen and kill them all, and he decides to take it. Even though he believed it will cost billions of the lives of others across the galaxy, he is unwilling to sacrifice the entire Fremen people.
5. In completely honorable one vs. one combat (and unnecessarily, as he had the Emperor at his mercy and could have easily extracted an confession and abdication of the throne from him which could have been broadcast to all the other houses...), he defeats the champion of the treacherous emperor who annihilated his House. He is completely within his right to kill the emperor, but instead spares him, and the heir offers to marry him to legitimize his claim on the throne. Ostensibly he does all this in the hopes that the other Houses will accept his rightful claim and avoid galactic war, otherwise why go to the trouble?
6. Literally ALL the other Houses: wE DoNt CaRe!!! No mOaR EMpERoRs fOr Us, ScReW pEaCe AnD sPiCe And CoMMeRcE, WaR TiMe TO tHe dEAtH!!!
7. I assume Paul thinks if the Houses are that !@#$% stupid it is their own fault for fighting him until they are destroyed, and he will do what he can to limit destruction to military targets and force surrenders (maybe the "billions across the galaxy who will die" are all military targets and the suicidal House dukes who want to fight to the death?)

I got up to use the restroom once; did I miss the part where Paul turned instantly evil, corrupted by power and gave up all his principles and ideals? Cause it seems like that is what people and even Denis are talking about happened to Paul...

Bonus: Chani, the person who loved and understood Paul the most and heard him profess his love for her and her people and witnessed his selfless nature, and fighting with all he had to reject the prophecy, decided at some point, "Nahh, Paul totally did all this for himself, I go home now." ...?

Given the time jump for messiah (12 years), do you feel Paul and others will be recast? Seems unlikely, but given how boyish Timothy is.

But at the same time feels like they’ve really owned their roles at this point, would feel strange to see other actors in the role. What do we think?

Going off the movie, they didn’t explain much

Bought a copy from eBay specifically because the photos had the cover without the badge. Book arrives and the cover has a fat obtrusive printed on circle with ”Now A Major Motion Picture”. Paperback is preferred but I’ll settle for a hardcover at this point.

Why does he react so strongly to Stilgar letting them join him

And if not, why did Paul and Jessica have the eyes of Ibad after consuming it?

I’m curious as to what others see within this story. For example, I see Rising Conflict when the Baron murders the Duke.

Up until the rise of paul....no one knew that the guild required ridiculous amounts of spice to initiate prescience to safely fold space...the guild procured its spice off the records from smugglers and fremen directly as I understand

Yet...the imperium without knowing that fact still valued spice very highly to the point it was the most valuable substance....so officially and in the records of the houses and choam-what was the actual main uses for spice and why was it considered soo valuable

Just been reading and came.across something about how the harkonnens 2nd journey to arrakis to destroy house atreides was soo ridiculously expensive that it would it be their entire profits that they earned for the previous 80 years!

So my 3 questions are:

1.-Any specific reason why the cost was soo much?Was the guild just nasty like that?

2.-it seems that the baron is very accepting of the costs as though he understands there is nothing that can be done to avoid it! So why couldn't he avoid it?like couldn't the emperor who initiated the downfall of atreides bear the cost of harkonnen 2nd trip?

3.-did the baron accept the ridiculous costs because his benefits were 1.destroying house atreides 2.regaining control of arrakis?

I was talking to a friend regarding the Dune series, we’re both Spanish speakers so I asked if she recalled the name “Paul Atreides” being translated to “Pablo” on the first translations of the book.

I’ve searched on the internet but haven’t been able to find anything.

In the 70’s and 80’s it was common for publishers to translate the character’s names, my favorite example is Edmund from the Chronicles of Narnia being translated to “Edmundo”.

“He who can destroy a thing has the real control of it”

Imo the Harkonnens could’ve done this the moment they got fiefdom of Dune and took control of the throne. (Each major house has their own stockpile of Atomics)

Instead they give it up to Leto and go in extreme debt and have their house ultimately dismantled.

Were they just too thick to realize they could destroy the spice and take power?

I don’t have my book handy, but there are a few in Dune Messiah that really get me. Paul’s visions of the falling moon are really visceral for me, and a great allegory of both the end of his reign and losing Chani. But a simple exchange always gets me -

Paul is crying at the thought of losing Chani and Alia wipes the tear away and says “We must not grieve for those dear to us before their passing.” and Paul responds “Tell me, little sister, what is before?”

Did a really great job of showing how truly powerless and scared Paul is - a victim of his prescience - Chani might as well already be dead to him at this point.

Basically the title. I read the kindle versions of books 1-4 some years ago and new chapters (beginning with the quotes) started on the same page where the last chapter ended, which felt really cramped up for such a long book and overall not a good reading experience for me.

I'm planning to buy the Ace edition paperbacks (the only ones available and within my budget), and I wanted to know if they have page breaks between chapters? I'm asking specifically for the mass-market (not trade) paperbacks with Jim Tierney's covers.

We have material that blocks water like rubber, but we don't have a fabric-like material for its outer layer that can reflect sunlight and radiate heat away effectively. Even if it exists, I'm not sure if it can lose heat faster than the amount rubber traps. If it's invented, one effect is if you made it a reversible garment it will radiate heat towards your body and keep you warm in the cold. Maybe in the future, there will be rubber-like material with better thermal conductivity (rubber is approximately 0.5 W/m·K).

I’ve seen a few posts in the various movie threads questioning the ending of Part Two and claiming the Great Houses call Paul’s bluff after he threatens to destroy the spice fields.

This isn’t actually how things play out in the film though.

I saw the film again last night, and Paul specifically threatens to destroy the spice fields if the Great Houses attack, which they don’t. The Great Houses do refuse to acknowledge Paul’s ascendency which leads to Paul instructing Stilgar to “lead them to paradise”, thereby making him the aggressor.

In effect, the Great Houses are hamstrung by Paul’s threat because they can’t invade/attack Arrakis directly without Paul destroying Spice production and Paul and the Fremen are free to start their holy war without direct reprisal. Cue the political landscape for Messiah (keeping this spoiler free for non-readers).

Hope that clears things up for anyone who was bothered by the ending.

I’m thinking of how Lucus Film sold for 4.5 Billion, how there are 100s of millions of Star Wars Fans, millions of toys and Lego sets, dozens of movies and TV shoes, and a Star Wars Land. The only other two properties that would compete at all would maybe be Harry Potter and the MCU and I would likely only grade them a 9.5 or so on this scale. So in 10 years or so, where will Dune rate on this scale from 1-10?

I'm rewatching Dune Part One before I see Part Two tonight. Noticed that before Paul goes to do the Gom Jabbar pain box test, his mother takes him to see Dr Yeuh to check Paul's vitals and tells Paul not to tell anyone of the meeting.

Is there a reason for this? It didn't sound like anything was said of substance, so why was it so important for them to meet and keep it secret? I feel like I'm missing something...

EDIT: Lovely answers everyone, you all get gold stars 🥰

When Paul learns that is grandfather was the Baron it changes how he acts. He decides he will be as ruthless as them.

There is a line to the effect of "I am Harkonnen so I will act Harkonnen".

Does anyone else feel that this line and this thought process smacks of the worst Eugenics racist logic of the early 1930s? Or is this far more literal? Are the Harkonnen so sly and devious because as part of the BG master plan they have been guided, manipulated, and literally bred to be this way? Did the BG create the evil of the Harkonnen at a genetic level and so justify Paul's attitude?

Also, did Paul taking the water suddenly open him up to every single detail for the full history of the BG program?

I'm rereading Dune and started looking at the timeline and it seems a little absurd that these families and their feuds have held strong for over 10,000 years.

“There’ll be much bloodshed soon,” she said. “The Harkonnens won’t rest until they’re dead or my Duke destroyed. The Baron cannot forget that Leto is a cousin of the royal blood—no matter what the distance—while the Harkonnen titles came out of the CHOAM pocketbook. But the poison in him, deep in his mind, is the knowledge that an Atreides had a Harkonnen banished for cowardice after the Battle of Corrin.”

I've been wondering if you all consider the movie as its own universe based on the book, like some sort of alternative future or just completely detached, just inspired by the books.

There is so much change; a somewhat simplified Paul in terms of character, meaning there's not as much introspection and peering inside his brain because it's not the medium for it, Jessica's complete turn after the WoL, Chani etc

I love the movies, and I adore the more philosophical approach of the first two books, but I was pretty miffed with how Paul seems straightforward after the WoL, like he's just straight up the villain without having many gray areas, and again, it's the medium that wants that. Dialogues are contrived and tweaked in order to convey the plot.

To me the book are essential to understand each character, especially Paul, but it gets stuck and contradicts itself with how the movie played out

I haven't read the books, so I'm not quite sure what Denis wants to convey with the design and why it was changed, I'm just speaking from my own experience and interpretation.

Both designs aren't perfect and each one of them does something that the other design doesn't do as well in my opinion, but there was one element that I wish carried through from the first to the second design and that's how "scary" it made the Fremen look.

That one shot in the first movie during Paul's vision of the future where we see the Fedaykin on Caladan waving their knives to Paul with the bloodstained armor is genuinely some of the scariest imagery I've seen in my life. I feel it perfectly captures that raw fanatical devotion that you virtually can never reason with, and that's a real thing to be afraid of.

The design of the armor in my opinion plays a huge role in creating that feeling. The lighter color boldly contrasts with the blood. The decorative patterns and the shininess make it seem like some ritualistic attire fit for a holy war, like something that you've been keeping in the closet for that one big event.

It's as if the Fremen aren't worried about the impracticality of its "loudness" because they're just THAT good at war, and they're more concerned with sending a message to the enemy of how they welcome and celebrate the violence that will come to pass, as it's a means to a greater good that they have been anticipating for generations.

And lastly the full face masks. When I can see Chani and the other Fremen's faces during the battle, I feel like "Oh, these are my Fremen buddies that I've spent the whole movie with. I know them, they're nice, reasonable people". But when I remember the faceless figures from the vision, I don't see people with emotions and desires and fears and a conscience that can listen to reason, I see puppets and vessels for Paul's will. Complete devotion, and nothing else beyond that, and that's pretty terrifying.

Now, of course, the opposite, seeing the humanity in the Fedaykin, also has its benefits for the story. In real life, one must never assume that malice will only come from people who look scary, or that people who look friendly can never do malice. There's a humanity in everyone that one must never forget about nor take as an indication of people's goodness. But that's just my personal preference on what I want to see and feel in this particular story.