Did people really get that dressed up to eat dinner every night? Even when it was just immediate family there? I find it hard to fathom.

To all the Edith fans, Robert/Carson/Bates haters, and everyone else in all the different camps (even that one person who doesnt like Violet or Mrs. Hughes), let's find something positive to agree on. And let's make it something positive. We can hopefully all agree that we all hate Mr Green, but I'd like if we all had something positive to all agree to.

Here are some suggestions, O'Brien had great one liners. The actors reactions to Denker are priceless, as is the exasperation of Dr Clarkson to Isobel. Shrimpie might have had one of the best lines in the show.

Looking forward to hearing from everyone and seeing what we can all agree on!

Just noticed in S01E02, while Cora and the dowager are having tea, there's a cat by the window sill. Was that a mistake or was it her cat? I know they have cats to take care of pests but would they let it into the tea room? Or was that normal?

currently rewatching downton abbey from the beginning and i'm bitter about the fact that apart from few light hearted moments in s1, thomas' storylines are always so sad and heartbreaking... i wish the writers would've given him more funny and happy scenes with the rest of the downstairs staff, like the one where he and daisy dance together while william plays the piano. i don't know, what do you think? :)

I anxiety watch Downton… it’s my comfort show and when the series ends, I start again. 😂

The other night I had a full blown dream that I was in Downton and was in line to marry Matthew Crawley.

I need to find a new show to binge. lol

I think Jimmy gets lots of hatred about the kiss incident while he's only a victim here, first O'Brian's then Thomas'.

First of all, he was SAed. Not as much as now but even in those times the concept of consent and privacy existed. Thomas could've waited and made a move on him when he was at least awake, it wasn't as if he was leaving or something.

Everyone who came to know in Downton treated it off-handedly and very indifferently. Of course it's common to treat minor harrassments like this especially in those times, I won't argue on that, but acting this cool about a homosexual act, which would be twice as a criminal offense if it WAS consented, is kind of weird. Not wanting police to be involved and bring a(nother) scandal to the house for something as small was one thing but condemning Jimmy and taking Thomas' side is another. I'm not sure but probably a lack of reference wasn't surprising either. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think even after Anna's rape anyone advised her to report it, going to doctor yes but not the police)

Another thing is Jimmy's mentality. After the kiss, he was shocked and out of it and was giving Thomas silent treatment without doing anything more. He was already uncomfortable with Thomas being touchy all the time and it was made worse. The problem was Alfred imo, he'd seen them in bed and kept being uncomfortable around them, giving Jimmy funny looks, attracting attention to them and implying something serious had happened.

Later O'Brain instigated Alfred to tell Carson everything he'd seen and put it in his head that maybe Jimmy was acting up. Then used the same trick on Jimmy to force him into having Thomas sacked. As much as Downton people had modern views, the society did not and Jimmy was rightly afraid that if Alfred did something about it and make him a willing partner, he would pay the consequences too, add O'Brain's whispering and we have Jimmy trying as hard as he could to prove it was unwanted and he's disgusted with it.

I think we must also consider that Jimmy was very young. The actor was 24 but I guess he was supposed to be 21-2 and much younger than Thomas, although his backstory wasn't much explored but he'd lost his parents young and their deaths could've been very close to each other. His lack of family support made him more desperate to do something to save his face.

I didn't intend for it to turn out this long but I hope it shows my point clearly.😅

On my millionth rewatch. What actor do you imagine playing Matthew’s father in a prequel? He must have staggering blue eyes and be an excellent early physician.

Like Brad and Angelina were Brangelina and Ben and Jennifer were Benifer.

What names would you give Downton Abbey couples?

Daisy & Andy are easy .... Dandy
Tom & Sybil
Carson & Mrs. Hughes
Cora & Robert
Mary & Matthew
Mary & Henry
Mary & Charles Blake
Mary & Tony Gillingham
Mary & Kamal Pamuk
Mary & Evelyn Napier
Mary & Sir Richard Carlisle

Damn Mary, slow down. You're going through men too quickly!

S5E4, the infamous dinner scene. Watched it last night and I noticed something. Sarah Bunting is in the house again to give Daisy her lessons. Before dinner, she runs into Cora and Isobel. Cora has been feeling (rightfully) sidelined by Robert as of late, and he's been taking exception to the presence of Simon Bricker. Isobel encouraging Tom to invite his friends as she puts it seems either uncaring or oblivious on her part, knowing that Bunting purposely tried to get Robert's goat. She's all "Bravo for speaking your mind!" But Cora? As a long time hostess who knows how to deflect bad situations, she's all "Of course you must stay for dinner" rather than the more practical "Too bad you're too busy to stay for dinner". And there's Tom, realizing he's about to go waltzing across a minefield. He asks her to be nice. As if.

And then at dinner, Cora is again seated next to Bricker, who is making himself all too obvious, and Cora discouraging it while smiling the whole time. And Isobel brings Bunting into the conversation by asking how the lessons are going. Well, that's sure to liven up the dinner conversation.

Then Bunting accusing Robert of not knowing Daisy's name. Mary chimes in, mentioning her name, and Bunting says that he knows it now. Robert only defends himself with "I knew it before." What he should have said was that Daisy was the widow of William, who died from injuries he got while saving the life of his son-in-law, now also dead. That would have shut them all up, Bunting, Isobel and Cora.

Yes, it's too much to say that Cora and Isobel were in a conspiracy to aggravate Robert, but they could hardly have planned it any better if they were.

Since the servants lived at Downton and ate all their meals there, what would they have spent money on other than clothing? I’m sure many of them sent money to their families to help out (and we know Mrs. Hughes was the sole support for her sister), but I’m curious as to what else they would do with their money.

And I realize they weren’t earning a great salary, but without the daily living expenses, they must have been better off financially than farmers or people who worked in the shops.

This just occurred to me. Laura Edmunds might be considered a friend of Edith's in season 6, but other than Madeleine Allsopp being Rose's friend, and Evelyn Napier, no other friends of that generation of the (extended) Crawley family turn up. Mabel Lane-Fox is too much of a 'frenemy', and well, to be honest I hesitated to include Evelyn Napier because of his torch for Mary. Mary mentions a Laura Dunsany once, but we never see her.

I rewatched the sweet little scene with Imelda Staunton and Jim Carter at the chapeau shop, and only GOT IT this time around.... One was very amused 😄

I must admit, my favourite moments with her are ALWAYS when she is with the Dowager Violet Crawley...

Does anyone else find this scene ridiculous? 😂 like I know it’s supposed to be a foreshadowing of their love story, but it just seems so stupid to just see him peeking and cheesing in the window like that. I didn’t really think so the first ten(? 11?) times I watched this but last time and now this time I just crack up at it. I feel like it was either a last minute add-on or just poor writing.

Did you notice as seasons went on Mrs. Crawley started to dress more elegantly?

Cora's mother, anticipated eagerly before her arrival, was the topic of conversation when Robert remarked, "Thank goodness your mother isn't here, otherwise she'd have quite the spectacle to witness." Cora chuckled and replied, " Don't worry about my mother, she has enough drama on her own. "

Mrs. Levinson, who dazzled the entire room upon her entrance, exchanged words with those she wished to engage with while completely ignoring others. She spoke without allowing anyone else a chance to interject, treating responses as interruptions as she swiftly transitioned to the next topic.

Her every word was piercingly accurate, hitting the nail on the head each time, much to the chagrin of those around her.

With the confidence of an American and the wisdom of someone who has seen it all, Mrs. Levinson's insight was evident in her maid, who observed everything downstairs with keen interest and greeted her beloved with enthusiasm.

When Aflred asked, "Aren't you meant to be gathering information for Mrs. Levinson?" She replied dismissively, "She is well aware of your intentions, why would she need me to gather information?"

Each member of the team bore the unmistakable mark of their leader, and Mrs. Levinson was no exception, exuding confidence and shrewdness inside and out.

During Downton's crisis, both Mary and her grandmother hoped to elicit Mrs. Levinson's sense of responsibility to aid the estate financially. However, she calmly responded, "I can do that. I'll host all of you in America, including covering Cora's wardrobe. As for the rest, I'm afraid I can't help."

I must say, I admire the way conflicts are handled in Downton, especially Mrs. Levinson's equanimity. Her composure was evident even when she declined a suitor's pursuit for wealth; she declined directly without disdain or indignation. It's proof that two people with differences need not become enemies.

As she shared whiskey with Robert, Mrs. Levinson remarked, "People must adapt to the world, adapt to nature. I hope you find the strength to survive amidst this process."

In that moment, I felt Mrs. Levinson's gaze transcended time, seeing into the future.

Her most radiant moment was when, faced with Mary and her grandmother's attempt to impress her with a traditional English dinner, the stove broke down right before the crucial dinner, leaving them with nothing to serve! Mrs. Levinson immediately organized Carson and the others to prepare a buffet, turning the tables in an instant and making that evening at Downton truly memorable. The way she held Dowager Countess ' hand and sang with heartfelt affection is a memory I cherish.

Mrs. Levinson, the masterstroke indeed!

Did anyone else want to see more of a blow out and drama between the family and Sir Tapseil? The arrogance and disregard for information from Clarkson and the ignorance from Lord Grantham just didn't make it seem that Sir Tapseil got as much as an earful as he should have.

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Right! One more episode just packed to the brims that makes me love how every character is always like:

"it's not my secret to tell" "it's not my business"

but then everyone is mixing themselves into every else's business because that's humans for you. And sometimes that has hilarious, others it has tragic results and feel free to guess where most of the meddling ends on that scale, in this episode. 

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I love how Fellowes looves killing us softly. We're starting with a wide shot of Downton, as sunny a day as you can get up in Yorkshire, but then you look at the foreground, and see Matthew in a wheelchair with Mary pushing him on what I assume is a sad imitation of their usual walk and talk around the estate.   

Just, take yourselves back a season, remember the young man who was "so full of himself", i.e. confident, strolling into Downton having no idea what to expect but being certain enough in himself to not be afraid of any criticism. And then meeting a young woman also so full of herself, confident, but also quite angry, and who could not understand why she was supposed to not only dine with him as equals, but be pushed at him, like he had already known and she had scoffed at, to be his wife.   

And then life happened, and they were both humbled a lot, and grew up a lot, and sometimes the way it happened was way too tragic.    

Because Matthew had never asked to be Lord of the manor strolling around Downton in splendour. He had been brought up to believe he needed to stand on his own two feet, to work hard and earn his way. And Mary had never had to work a day in her life. Had thought it was too enraging to even dine with Matthew, the usurper of her father's affections and her mother's fortune. 

And now here they are, Matthew relying on others to make his way, and said others being Lady Mary Crawley. 

Golly Gumdrops, what a turnip indeed! 

Note: they are still the future of Downton though. Like I said, it's as sunny as a day can get in Yorkshire (some clouds but the sun/hope is coming through), and Downton is standing strong behind them. Visual language is a thing of beauty sometimes.   

Mary: I shall have arms like Jack Johnson if I’m not careful.  

Matthew: I’m strong enough to wheel myself.  

Mary: I’ll be the judge of that. 

I love them. Their situation might be different, but their stubbornness and character shines through immediately. Mary with a sarcastic joke. Matthew still insisting he can work his way. Mary letting him know she sets the rules of the game thank you very much.  

They've changed, but they're still themselves, just more mature, a bit worn. 

Matthew then going on a slightly depressive space all "William was the brave one, sacrifice should be rewarded, he should be here not *exactly* instead of me etc" and Mary picking up on it immediately and setting him straight.  

"I don't think we can say "should" about things that happen in war. It just happens. And we should live with it." 

She does that thing where she rolls her entire head (not just the eyes, Michelle you genius, the camera was too far away, wouldn't pick up on that) because clearly she's been talking him out of his depressive moods for a while and she's become an expert at letting him air his grievances but easily replying with just the thing that will shut him up and keep him grounded. 

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Carlisle: Ought I to be jealous?   

Ugh. Here we fucking go. 

I love Robert's face. Constipated. And as terrible a liar as his eldest daughter, but unlike her he knows it so he doesn't even reply to Carlisle and instead changes the subject. 

I'm so confused by Carlisle. Well, not confused, I know what he's doing. I'm just pissed off at him I guess. 

He had made it clear to Mary, immediately, that he was not in love with her. That he felt no affection for her. That the marriage he had in mind was one of mutual social benefit.    

So no, Carlisle, you're not supposed to be jealous. You asked Mary to be your society wife. To give you the aristocratic connection you needed, to be there to guide you through their insane traditions and to show up at functions and be socially savvy, and to give you "blue-blooded" children.

*vomits*

Carlisle has no rights to her heart, and she knows this. Mary guards her heart more than any other character on this show, and she'd certainly not offered it to Richard, ever, so why would he possibly be jealous??? 

Matthew is impotent in these scenes, clearly there's nothing they could do that could damage Carlisle socially, even if they wanted to (which they actually didn't, Mary was offering her love and care in the least sexual way possible, and Matthew was nowhere near that mindset), and Mary was offering Matthew none of the things Richard wanted so what's the deal mate?? 

It will be made clear, at the very end of the episode.

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I'm hating on Robert so hard in this scene. I love well-written it is though, because Robert and Carlisle are talking about completely different things.  

Robert knows how Mary feels about Matthew. We've seen that realisation hit him in the previous episode. But when Carlisle says he wants to buy Haxby, Robert wonders whether it would be "comfortable" for them to stay at Haxby.  

Does this mean he was aware Matthew was also still in love with Mary? Or did he simply worry it would be too painful for Mary to be so close to Matthew and Lavinia? Is it possible he could already see this being an issue, but decided to not say absolutely anything about it because... Who cares I guess????

So what if Mary is in a loveless marriage, as long as she's married, able to procreate, and somewhere far enough from Downton that her and Matthew's stupidity wouldn't cause trouble to the family?

Or did he think if they were far enough away she'd forget? 

Either way, Robert is thinking of what Richard said previously, that Matthew and Mary are definitely not done, meanwhile, for all his "worries" over Mary falling for Matthew all Richard is thinking of is the practicalities of the place because he wasn't actually buying it with Mary in mind. Just his dreams of climbing the social ladder and then showing it off in absolute splendour.

With the beautiful aristocratic wife on his arm and his money buying the very best house and luxuries available, all trophies to show off to his potential crowd of sycophants.

*gags* 

So, yeah, fuck Robert and his indifference to Mary becoming some asshole's trophy wife. Great, A++ parenting right there. I mean sure, she's a grown woman who makes her own choices, but Robert's inaction/indifference is just pathetic and telling of his parenting style in the past, when Mary was *not* a grown woman.

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Ah, fake Patrick, my beloved. I hope the user forever making their point about that storyline is still around, mate give me a shout if you like this breakdown in the end! 

Let me start off by saying that he DID take terrible advantage of Edith. He read the situation really well, greeting her with: "Lady Edith, SECOND daughter of the house", to which Edith replied "Yes, IN CHARGE of non-medical welfare". 

It doesn't take long for Fellowes to show character weakness when he wants to, and Edith wears her emotions on her sleeve. It does help her become more likeable (to those who like emotive characters, I prefer mine as frosty as the Antartica until you cut through all that ice but again, personal preferences!) but it also exposes her to exploitation, again and again because this is neither the first time, nor the last time it happens. Fake Patrick read her like a book. 

We could also say that there were things he could know from the real Patrick. Edith has always worn her heart on her sleeve and she's openly tried to take the attention of Mary's suitors before, so it's no stretch to say she'd definitely show Patrick she was into him, something that Patrick might have said to his friend.   

But as that is speculation, we still have that bit of dialogue to see how Edith gave herself and her weakness, her feeling of inferiority she tries so hard to make up for in various ways, away to this man. 

Also, he says "I hope my appearance doesn't put you off" while he's still hidden in the shadows, and Edith quite confidently replies "At this stage there isn't much that puts me off" but then he quite swiftly comes into the light, and oh- 

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Edith has to look away in shock, and to manage to hold on to her composure and continue in polite conversation. Very manipulative, this Fake Patrick, able to use his recent injury to his advantage, because this was a power move. That yes, he could put her off if he wanted to. 

I do feel sorry for Edith here. She tries to give him an explanation for their common "family history", already a victim of his manipulation because she tries to give him comfort which he Definitely doesn't need, and she closes it off with "well, as I said, I'm hopeless".  

Unfortunately, that is true, but sadly, not in the way she says it. She's hopeless in falling for his act, actually.  

He drops the hook with saying "I hoped you'd recognise my voice" and sees her interest before she's pulled away by Sybil. For now, Fake Patrick is satisfied with himself. Progress, he thinks. 

Fellowes, you witty bastard.  

Right. Moving on to yet another manipulative bastard:

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Carlisle: Lady Mary and I intend to buy a home near Downton. 

Fuck off. You never needed Mary's agreement or permission in doing anything. He just knows what he needs to say to get Carson to listen.   

"It's a long way from London, but I've made enough money to please myself these days."  

Finally, some honesty. "to please MYSELF". No kidding. I know it just slipped out, he didn't mean to show his hand, but again, excellent writing.  

In any case, Carlisle had started his campaign on how to fix the Matthew and Mary issue. He's a newspaper man, he knows the best way to work is to surround yourself with people literally in your pocket. He offered to job to Carson to lull Mary in a sense of security, that she'd have someone she considered family with her, and hoped he could buy off his loyalty because Carlisle puts 0 weight on real loyalty and affection, so he'd never expect Carson to not fold to his own wishes, if he needed him to, over his loyalty to Mary. 

Carson: I await Lady Mary's instruction. 

Right. We'll get back to that, next episode. I'm not gonna comment here further than saying that obviously, at this point Carson's loyalty remains with his daughter current employer's daughter.

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Mary: It's so empty 

Visual language, she's standing alone in an empty and very grand house. But it's empty. Like her current situation. Very grand. And empty. 

Also she and Carlisle are on opposite ends of the house AND when the camera looks at Mary, we look at her head-on because her situation is unchanged, but we look at Carlisle from below, because "he's rising" in the world 😒

The script again, gives us excellent lines "When Billy died it knocked the stuffing out of them" like the stuffing had been knocked out of Mary. All that misery had resulted in Billy's parents leaving Haxby, and Mary coming to it.   

Also Mary when Carlisle says they can buy furniture and paintings "Your lot buys it. My lot inherits it. We ought to get back." 

1. Apparently, if you're going to marry a man this authoritative, you really should learn that you will suffer if you're going to be so open with your opinions, as a woman. Mary finds that out soon enough. But it's MARY, and God knows I love her for her strength of spirit, so she definitely won't slip into the role of the compliant, broken wife. My girl 🥹
2. "your lot buys it, my lot inherits it. We ought to get back" Her brain has gone from Carlisle's lot, to her lot, which is Matthew, who will inherit Downton and all its furniture and paintings, because Matthew has gone from interloper to her lot/family in her mind, and by the way, Matthew needs her so they ought to get back. 

Again. So. Well. Written. 

Carlisle: Why? What's at Downton that needs your attention so urgently? 

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Again, fuck off Carlisle. Why do you care who she spends her time with, she's still your trophy wife. Mary doesn't even bother responding because, guess what, it's actually none of his fucking business. MY GIRL 

Carlisle: Well, what do you think? Should we give the house a second chapter? 

Mary: Well, I suppose one has to live somewhere 

She really can't understand why he's suddenly pretending they're something more than what they actually are. She won't give him the satisfaction of going along with it. "One has to live somewhere" i.e. it doesn't matter where we'll be, the house won't make any difference to what we will be to each other. 

Back to Fake Patrick and his campaign of misinformation.  

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He says "do you still not recognise me" and traps Edith, both because he knows she will want to give him what he wants, and because she's in a situation where a woman of her station simply has to remember an acquittance so she says "I know, I'm being so silly" even though she's not being silly at all, she has no reason to remember him. 

This is why Edith is the more feminine of the three sisters. Neither Sybil nor Mary would give a flying fuck about the rules of society here, while Edith truly tries to be a model woman, still. They would refuse to make themselves appear silly to satisfy a man. They'd both say some variation of "Why the fuck should I remember you?" Mary's probably closer to that sentiment than Sybil's, and go on with their lives. 

Anyway, Fake Patrick goes on creating connections that Edith doesn't actually see, only reads them through what he's dishing out to her, and slowly begins to believe his bullshit.  

"I was just hoping you'd realise without me having to spell it out" he shifts the blame on her for not recognising him, when she had 0 reasons to make that connection. Like a manipulative bastard. 

There's a reason there wasn't a scene between Fake Patrick and Mary. She'd eat him alive. 

It's also moments like this that make me feel sad for Edith and Mary's relationship. This is something that Mary could have protected her sister from, if their relationship wasn't so very damaged. 

He gets Edith to sit down and he feeds her the tale, but she still has questions so when he gets the chance he manipulates her again:

Edith: And it must be so hard for you, what with Mary getting married.  

Fake Patrick: Did I love her very much?  

Edith: Well, I'm the wrong person to ask. 

Fake Patrick: Because you were the one who really loved me, you mean?  

Edith: I never thought Patrick knew.  

Fake Patrick: Well, he did. I--I do. 

He asks Edith if he loved Mary, because he knows that will give her the space to expose herself, to let him know if she has lingering feelings for Patrick, and that gives him a footing to manipulate her emotionally.  

They actually don't speak about Patrick's feelings at all. Only Edith's. They don't say if Patrick loved Mary. They don't even talk about if Mary loved Patrick. They only talk of Edith's feelings, and he lets her know that Patrick knew about it (and slips a bit when he says that Patrick knew, not himself). 

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Mary: *something about Haxby park with the least amount of enthusiasm imaginable* 

Matthew: Can we stop?? 

Yeah, mate. I wish you would. Take a moment to actually think. But why would you do that when you can both be idiots instead. 

Matthew: I'd much rather see your face when we talk  

Mary is hard enough to read when you're watching her expressions closely, how can he judge what she feels if he can only tell from her voice? And he needs to know how she feels about Haxby, and Carlisle. 

Oh, Matthew 😔

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Mary: I don't have to marry him, you know. 

They talk about Mary and Carlisle buying Haxby, about Carson's devotion to her, and she's so desperate. I think part of it is because she wonders who will Matthew have in his corner. She wants to tell him that just as Carson would "open his veins for her" she would do the same for Matthew. And she tells that to him now, not before or after, because now, this moment, is the only time when Lavinia is truly not in the picture. Because she doesn't take away from Matthew's happiness by not only showing him, but telling him how much she truly cares. Well. As much as Mary can manage to talk about feelings anyway. 

She also thinks she will have Carson in her corner, and that's something, but who will Matthew have if she leaves? She's also so desperate the more the time passes and the closer she comes to the reality that actually, she won't be able to stay at Matthew's side for much longer.   

How else would she say "I don't have to marry him", if not in despair? Of course she has to marry him. She still thinks her father and Matthew would hate her if they knew the truth. She thinks Carlisle would sell her story the moment she pulled out of the deal (and we'll talk about why he didn't do it when the time comes), her plea here is more showing of how desperate she is over their situation, and to show Matthew that she'd do anything for him. 

From his end, Matthew would never accept that kind of devotion. 

Matthew: Yes, you do. If I thought for a moment that I was an argument against your marriage, I should jump into the nearest river. 

There's two sides to this:

1. If he wouldn't "trap" Lavinia in a life as his wife and nurse, he certainly wouldn't "trap" Lady Mary Crawley to a life as his nurse. What I love is that, unlike other men on the show who just don't think women capable of knowing their own minds, Matthew doesn't dismiss Mary's opinion and feelings, he only dismisses himself. He doesn't think she's misguided in her thoughts, just that he doesn't want to be the one to drag her down to his level, because he thinks himself quite worthless right now. 
2. "I wouldn't let you anywhere near me" I think in the end of the day, he's aware of his weakness, and his weakness is Mary. And if Mary weren't engaged, if what she was offering wasn't to be his nurse, he wouldn't be strong enough to send her away. He loves her too much.

Right, from that tear-jerker lets move to some fun bits for once:

Matthew:... I should jump into the nearest river. 

Mary: And how would you manage that without my help? 

Matthew: Well, I'd get you to push me in.   

Lord give me strength. 

A marriage of equals. Where Matthew would need Mary's help. Where Mary would be in a position to help him, but would be reluctant to do so, unless persuaded by Matthew to change her mind. 

Hmmm, I think there's a storyline (or two) from season 3 that fits this dialogue perfectly. And some that fit it in reverse.

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*insert any and all rage gifs* 

He looks so, so sad. His own life seems so bleak. And Mary is engaged so he "lets" her spend time with him. But also, Mary is engaged, to another man.

And look at her as well. She can see how depressed he is and it's killing her, and she's trying so hard to help him find some hope. Mary's heartbreak over Matthew's self-pity and fatalism is a thing that can destroy a person (me). 

If only they weren't so perfect for each other and still killing me with their endless drama and bloody stubborn stupidity and gaaaaaaaahh.

Moving on 

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I love how these scenes come in one after the other. 

Mary and Matthew bathed in light, even in their tragedy, and Carlisle and Cora shown in dark outlines as they're watching them, because what they are plotting is truly, honestly, so disgusting and vile in its selfishness. 

No one expected anything better from Carlisle, but Cora??? 

First of all, Mary would be so ashamed to be so easily read. Matthew doesn't care, he's open with his emotions because he's confident in his ability to withstand whatever comes his way, and to not be manipulated by them, Mary cares, and she'd normally hate being so obvious if she wasn't so torn apart by Matthew's misery. 

Second of all, honestly, Cora. I thought she'd have known better than involving herself in Mary's life by now, but apparently not. And by the way, she doesn't make a choice for Mary here, she makes it for herself, and her family, and what SHE thinks is best. And what she thinks is best is marrying Mary off to Carlisle because Carlisle CAN make babies with Mary and what does Mary even matter/worth to anyone if she doesn’t do her duty and bear children?

*gags, vomits, throws computer out a window*  

Anyone who knew Mary, truly knew her, and cared about her, would know that taking her away from Matthew and pushing her further in with Carlisle would not be in her -personal- best interest. 

Also, selfish, and frankly disgusting, that Cora bulked at the idea of Mary being Matthew's nurse, but didn't mind throwing Lavinia at that "hideous" prospect. After all, Lavinia has no “blue blood” to speak of so who the fuck cares. 

I honestly hate these people. They can both fuck right off. Their interference here was an absolute travesty. And if we want to talk about the real reason things went so sour with Lavinia, we can stare at these two, in this moment. 

Because before Matthew's injury, he and Mary were far more removed from each other. After all that time of her taking care of him though, there was a bond there that was far more difficult to ignore. And if Lavinia hadn't come back, they would have figured it out. And Carlisle knew that. So at least I can understand his motivations in not wanting Lavinia back, because he was actually worried at this point that Mary might pull out of their agreement (and again, we will talk more about his "leverage" over her later on), but Cora? Shameful. Honestly. 

https://preview.redd.it/wqgolomng9xc1.jpg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfcc27b542011770a8c3050963f4382de2b01e49

HER FACE 

She couldn't believe that someone, anyone, would change their lives for her sake. Carson says "It would be a huge wrench for me to leave Downton" but he would do it for her, and she just can't believe it. 

And this is important in how bad her reaction is later.

Because Mary isn't used to people showing her CARE. Interest yes, many people are interested in her. But interest and care are two very different things. 

Also, just one bit from her conversation with Robert later:  

Robert: You know there is nothing more ill-bred than to steal other people's servants. 

Mary: But you're not other people. And Carson brought me up. 

I.e. You're not "other people" you're my actual father, and should show a bit more consideration for my welfare. And Carson is not a servant, he's family. And he's showing Mary more consideration than her actual father in this instance. Or at least, that's how she sees it, in this moment. Especially since in the end, Robert doesn't give in to losing Carson for Mary's sake, but because it's what Carson wants. 

The bad stuff haven't come yet and I'm already crying for her. Life has another slap on its way and it will hit her hard. And it's not even the one coming from Fake Patrick and his bullshit. Speaking of which- 

https://preview.redd.it/0y1gc49sg9xc1.png?width=1205&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc46ea8d1be487b71bd5e4941d72882f5b7368a9

Family councils hadn’t made an appearance in ages and honestly, given how sad this one is, and how they normally come around when one tragedy or other strikes, I can’t exactly say I’ve missed them. 

Emotions run high, and it’s amazing that the most exuberant of them all is Mary. 

Matthew is only finding an outlet for his grief, the loss of inheritance seen as yet another thing he had trouble accepting before, but is certain he doesn’t deserve now. And Mary looks at him with so. Much. Pain.  

Because she’s been there. She IS there. She knows what it feels like to feel completely worthless. To think you’ve lost your place in the world. That whatever it was that gave your life value before simply isn’t there anymore, and it’s KILLING her to see Matthew completely lost in self-hatred. 

But because she’s Mary, she won’t just sit there quietly and let him take it, no matter what he says. She’ll yell and make a fuss and fight for him when he’s not in a place to fight for himself, and she'll do those things with much more conviction than she ever fought for herself so far. 

And she’s literally got nothing to gain from this. Matthew has rebutted her efforts to stay by his side time and again, and her standing up for him now won’t win her any favours with literally anyone. It serves no purpose for her to be suddenly so emotional over something that really shouldn’t matter to her, but she’s not standing up for her own benefit, but for Matthew’s.  

Edith is certainly surprised, exactly because she doesn’t understand why Mary would care, because Edith doesn’t know/believe how much Mary loves Matthew.  

Note 1: Matthew and Mary have this in common: when they're most hurt they turn their pain to anger. My heart breaks that Mary knows this and can read that in Matthew's reaction, because it's so like her own.

Note 2: I love how Carlisle is almost uplifted to hear about Matthew’s loss of his inheritance, only to immediately intervene when he thinks it might be something that will cause issues to his own plans (when Edith points out that Mary used to be engaged to Patrick). I love how Mary rolls her eyes because of course that is absolutely ridiculous, and not only because Mary knows Patrick is dead. 

I can tell Mary is Fellowes’ favourite character in this scene at least, because she’s the only one who doesn’t buy Fake Patrick’s absolutely ridiculous ploy. And it’s probably the reason why we don’t get to see her end Fake Patrick because she would never bother even meeting him, that’s how convinced she is he’s fake. 

https://preview.redd.it/kihe5v3wg9xc1.png?width=1205&format=png&auto=webp&s=0da90fce57dbd957a8b263730cbfd9d45750821c

Note 3: The only other 2 people who react strongly to these news are Isobel and Robert. Isobel because it’s heartbreaking for her to watch her son, always so strong and confident, be this defeated, and Robert because he does love Matthew as a son. It is though heartbreaking he wouldn’t show the same consideration when his daughter is writing off her own life. 

Oh well.

We momentarily get back to Edith and Fake Patrick, and Fake Patrick continues giving Edith reasons to create stories she thinks he remembers, without him actually remembering any of them. It’s just sad. She was too desperate. 

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At the second family council re: Fake Patrick: Violet very astutely places herself in support of Matthew. And in this instance, I think it was simply because she was smart enough to know that this was a Fake Patrick. 

Mary hits the nail on the head when she randomly guesses one of the things Fake Patrick “remembered” and gives a pause to Edith’s conviction. 

Isobel is still worried over Matthew, even though he appears to be much calmer, and I think a combination of Isobel, Mary, and now watching Violet sort of take his side has helped him see reason, if not that he’s worthy of his position (since he still says “It’ll take a man who’s more than I am now to follow you. So don’t think about me”), that at the very least he’s nowhere near losing it.

I don’t think even Edith herself realised how damaging it would be for Matthew to lose Downton now, that it would have been incredibly difficult for him to find work.

https://preview.redd.it/uzlenehlh9xc1.png?width=1767&format=png&auto=webp&s=722df548837c70215b717f0bff8b68a513216139

Carlisle brings Lavinia back to Downton, Cora greets her like she’s an lamb for slaughter old friend, and there’s a variety of shock and horror on multiple people’s faces.

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I think what gets to me the most is this, Matthew has mostly resigned himself to his situation rather than happily accepted Lavinia’s return. He’s been told by so many people that he should embrace this new life, that he should make the most of it, and he’s probably quite vulnerable now when he realises that actually, he still has so much to lose when he thought he’d reached rock bottom, that he will take this, even though he probably still doesn’t think it’s right. 

I don’t know how to feel about the row Robert and Cora had. 

On the one hand, it could explain Robert’s lack of reaction to Carlisle being a horrible future husband for Mary. He can clearly see Mary loves Matthew, but he doesn’t like the idea of Mary still being attached to him any more than Cora does. 

He does say however “Sometimes Cora you can be curiously unfeeling” and I’m not sure if he says that because Cora doesn’t care if Lavinia ends up as Matthew’s nurse, or because he can see how hard it all is for Mary and Matthew and he finds the solution of “Mary is still in love with Matthew even though she’s marrying Carlisle, so let’s bring Lavinia in to even the odds out” a cruelty to everyone involved. 

I find it all incredibly cruel so for Robert’s sake, I hope the answer is both. It’s a cruel, stupid plan and will literally hurt everyone involved. 

https://preview.redd.it/3bjoh2xyh9xc1.png?width=1854&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e06af52102bd839ece8cad6ddc835d32e609c65

I don’t know about any of you, but I remember being young and watching this, and my heart almost giving out. 

For one thing, Mary freezes again the moment Carlisle grabs her. 

For another thing, it happens in her home. Again. In the place where she should feel strong and safe because it’s her “noble” family’s home. And she’s yet again reminded that, no, actually, she’s not strong. Or at least, her strength of character doesn’t matter because in the end she’s not a man, she’s a woman at the mercy of the man who currently has control over her.  

And he forces a kiss on her and she just stands there, numb, nods that she’ll follow his wishes, absolutely frozen still. 

I do hate this show sometimes, but I do love that Mary stood up to him all by herself. In the end. 

Note: the thing that Mary says to Carlisle that sets him off is “suppose Matthew won’t have her” i.e. Lavinia, and that in the end of the day if Mary wants to spend time helping Matthew it really isn’t Carlisle’s business. But Carlisle is a controlling fuck, so he took issue with that. That has been his problem all along. He doesn't care if Mary has feelings for another man, he just wants her entirely under his thumb regardless and he makes sure she knows he has all the cards.

The fact that there’s people on here saying Carlisle was “mistreated” really pisses me off to no end. But then they're often on here defending Pamuk so, you know, people be people.

Anyway. Fake Patrick leaves, the war ends, Mary is told to keep her distance, and Matthew starts gaining some feeling in his legs, which is I suppose what salvaged his relationship with Lavinia, at this stage. 

God, this was long. Have a nice week everyone, the next episode should be easier as I think it's the filler one before Fellowes starts killing off ppl 💀

I’ve been so confused about her age.

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For this reason Bates is one of my favourite characters. Because extreme humbleness and humility is something which is not particularly liked in British culture I feel this grants him his unpopularity amongst viewers. His natural acceptance and inclination towards seeking nothing more nor less than what he already has simply does not resonate with the average person or most functioning members of society. It's not something that grants success, it's not something which the majority of successful individuals have, it's not something you often find in the workplace either hence he's just not relatable to most.

https://reddit.com/link/1cf9wbe/video/b1ro2jvbu8xc1/player

So, I was watching a documentary about Erddig Castle. The people who lived there weren't Earls but they were gentry and they treated their servants very well. They took group and single photos of them, allowed them to date, and even wrote poems about them.

Then they explained why this might be:

a) They were usually short of money so couldn't pay them well. They had to be nice to keep them.

b) There was a scandal when they accused the housekeeper of stealing money BUT the housekeeper won the case (it was at this point they ramped up the nice-o-meter and started writing poetry about the servants lol)

Now obviously nothing like this is mentioned but the Crawleys are frequently short of money and there COULD have been a scandal like that in the past.

Just throwing that out there

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