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So cool

Lol

I've noticed quite a few people talking about the life cycle of the Pilgrim Butterflies as Pilgrim--> Tree--> Pilgrim Butterfly. The main problem with this (at least as I see it) is that the Pilgrims themselves share too many characteristics with the Butterflies themselves. Their long necks and (possible) lack of a ribcage seems to indicate that the Hollow Trees are something else entirely.

What I'm proposing is that the Pilgrims were Hollows that were seeded by the Abyss, the Deep, the Dark, or whatever is the cause of the Pus, but had prior understanding as to its effects. They wear the massive shells on their backs to keep the Pus germinating inside of them without allowing it to break free, and set off towards Lothric. Now, catalyzed either by the passing of time or their arrival at Lothric, they 'die' and commence the next stage of their life as Pilgrim Butterflies. If you pay careful attention to the statues in the Cathedral of the Deep, you can see them going through their transformation.

I believe that Hollow Trees were formerly Pus of Men, but didn't have the understanding or power over the dark sign that the Pilgrims do. If antagonized, they allow the Pus to exit their bodies before it has fully developed. Otherwise, they turn into the Hollow Trees, maybe? I'm not sure.

I just don't understand why there is a dark Firelink shrine. Where did it come from and why is it there? Thanks for your help!

Yo let's own this flame. At the end she says "Ashen One, hearest my voice still?" My theory: WE GETS THE GO HOLLOW. Normally you'd go hollow if you run out of purpose right? WELL WHAT PURPOSE DOES WE GOT NOW? NADA. ZERO. NEIN. NONE. BOOM DS3 SOLVED. If anyone has already had this theory I am sorry for also having it. I've only just completed the game because I'm lazy.

I am at work, so I must be brief, but consider the Tomb of Giants from Dark Souls 1.

I am sure everyone can recall the horrific, quadruped skeletons with warped, needle-like fangs that prowled in the dark. These creatures always evoked a special kind of uneasiness within me, as they were clearly the remains of a malformed undead... but DS 1 never really showed us more; we never got to see what such a creature would look like with flesh.

Now, considering the Outrider Knights with their movements/posture as well as the great watchdogs in Irithyll, I began to think that From just wanted to throw an homage to Bloodborne, but then I recalled those beastly skeletons just beyond Lord Nito's resting place!

Considering that Aldrich bears the appearance of half-eaten Gwyndolin, dreamt up Priscilla's lifehunt Scythe and appeared to have done the same with Nito's Gravelord Sword, I started to wonder...

Perhaps Pontiff Sulyvahn ventured into the Tomb of Giants, fed Nito to Aldrich, and ALSO unwraveled the mystery of the giant-turned-beast skeletons and then used that power himself.

Thoughts? I Personally like the idea, as it ties up some loose ends lore-wise and makes the beastly skeletons and the outrider knights' beastly curse fit a little better!7

Is it possible that Yhorm ruled before Vendrick? This dialog from Vendrick:

"One day fire will fade, and dark will become a curse. Men will be free from death, left to wander eternally. Dark will again be ours, and in our true shape, we can bury the false legends of yore. Only... is this our only choice? Seeker of fire, coveter of the throne, seek strength. The rest will follow."

See, what are the legends of Yore? Yore as in Branch of Yore (the tree)? I think it is rather "false legends of Yhorm" which for me makes sense seeing that they are both giants. You see, Yhorm had a bad reputation and would explain why Vendrick thinks those legends were false.

#Spoilers warning because of a screenshot of one ending.

Maybe it's nothing, maybe I'm just over rethinking... but look at Yuria's Black Helmet:
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Set

And now look at the Cainhurst Helmet:
http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Cainhurst+Helmet

They also both feature some silver hair protruding out the back of the helmets. It's uncanny how much they look alike.
For comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/adi9yB4.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZA5hSDLOSuk/maxresdefault.jpg

In addition, both Cainhurst and Londo prefer the use of katanas - we get Chikage and Darkdrift that are specifically link to the two places respectively.

The exposition is strong.

Edit: bonus material:
Yuria is voiced by Pooky Quesnel, same VA as Arianna from Bloodborne. And we know Arianna is related to Cainhurst...

So i finished my first playthrough of the game and naturally linked the fire as that seem to be the obvious thing to do in a first run... and wow... how anticlimactic can you get!? But after thinking about it it may have been fairly awesome... let me get my thoughts together and let me know what you think... or if these thoughts are already out there.

When you link the fire the ashen one seems to take the place of the soul of cinder. And thats it! No big fire like dark souls 1. The sun still looks like the dark sign. All is still in decay. Literally nothing has changed since you started the game.

My thought is this... all flames fade even the first flame. What if nothing really happens because the cycle has occurred so many times that even the first flame is beginning to sputter out? Linking the flame has little to no effect on the world.

In the previous dark souls games you always had to find, kill, and take the 4 great lord souls. Here we have to find the souls of lords of cinder. Other nameless undead that have risen to power and linked the fire in the past. Hardly a substitute for great lord souls like Nito, The Witch of Izalith, and the soul of Gwyn himself. Could it be that even the lord souls have been broken, splintered, used so many times that even they have all but dissappeared, and faded from the world.

Finally, i know that this is supposedly the final chapter in the series, and that some of the other endings have to do with the breaking of the cycle. What if this one does too? As i said, all flames fade, even the first flame. So while linking the flame may preserve the fire for another cycle, how many more cycles can it sustain before it completely goes out?

Thank you for reading and please let me know what you think. If these are old ideas i apologize. This is my first discussion on the topic. Hope to hear some feedback.

Oh man this sub is pretty dead...

But since I have just written this as a reply, I might as well post it here.

Wall of text warning!

Pontiff Sulyvahn and Oceiros were trying to create dragons in the dungeon in order to reach immortality... and their methods are crude.

In the dungeon, we encounter the prisoners who'd puke out leeches (animated corpses), as well as the leech monsters (infested corpses and corpse-grub). My theory is that they are failed experiments.
The state goes:

1. Maggots grow within the belly (animated corpse)
2. Maggots become bigger and they grew out of the belly (infested corpse)
3. The maggots get together and form their own type of monster (corpse grub)

How Sulyvahn did it is unknown... what did he feed/put into the prisoners? Likely Pale Pine Resin or Human Pine Resin (we find it in the Consumed King Garden near a bunch of slimes, more on that later).

However, it's the Wretchs that suffered the most.
Pontiff feed the infested (maggots) to various magic users, and forced them into a deformed dragon. As we see there always corpses with busted bellues inside and outside of the cells that holds the Wretch, and that we found a surprisingly large number of magic items/spells in the dungeon (Great Magic Shield and Bellowing Dragon Ring).

From a tailbone weapon we get from the Wretch:

Crafted from a feeble tailbone, and seen as a sign of the dragons. Their screams are oft heard inside the dungon, as they naively mutilate their unworthy flesh.

And Sulyvahn had succeeded! If you look closely, you'd see the Wretch has wings...

During our battle with Sulyvahn, his second form also has (black) wings... that looks like the Pilgrim Butterflues in Lothric Castle (the black flying things, whuch are also "failed dragons").

And of course, we have Oceiros as a the proof.

Wait a minute, aren't Lothric and Irithyll at war?

Why's there an outrider knight guarding a treasure room in the Dragon's Barrack?

But that's not the only connection:
We'd find the Cathedral Knights in the Garden of the Consumed King. We also see the infested corpses in the Cathedral of the Deep. What does that mean?

Oceiros has been working with the Pontiff all along! That'd also explain the black goo that turns some undead into dragon-looking creatures. The bastards have been experimenting on their own people, the war between the countries are just a farce!

Oceiros got what he wanted (to become a dragon), and Sulyvahn got some new power...

Edit: formatting and spelling

Edit2: Pontiff Sulyvahn is from Lothric! Link to post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/4ko3ul/statue_of_sulyvahn_face_revealed/

I think this is the most faded we've seen the flame in any three of the games. Time is usually convoluted in Dark Souls but Anor Londo slipping into Lothric kind of solidified just how screwed up time really is. The world itself is very gray and drab, just plain dead.

The flame has to be almost out. The Lords of Cinder all fled long, long ago. It's almost poetic and beautiful that the final game in the series has a world that seems to be on its dying breath.

Any thoughts on this?

We reached our first milestone - 100 subscribers - and I'd just like to thank you all for choosing /r/DaS3Lore! This subreddit isn't possible without YOU so let those theories and ideas fly.

Velka,

Fina,

and Caitha.

These three Goddesses have a ton in common but let's start simple, each of them have roots in Carim, each of them are considered dark or sinister in some way, and each of them have no mention of blood relation to Gwyn.

I'll stop pussyfooting around the issue now, Carim produces Gods.

We know a few things about Carim to begin with. It's deeply religious and follows Way of White (Gwyn's religion) as evidenced by the Carim Braille tome, however there is a divide within Way of White on the grounds of the worship of Allfather Lloyd in that Carim clerics believe he is a fraud (Lloyd sword and shield rings). We know that maidens become saints and that each Carim knight serves only one maiden (Morne Set). We know that maidens/saints can become firekeepers however Eygon of Carim (the NPC) says something interesting.

"Well she's a lost cause couldn't even become a firekeeper"

The way he phrases it seems to suggest a saint can become more than a firekeeper and that it's not even that impressive a transformation despite the fact Irina needs to read tons of miracles to make the transformation. But what is above firekeeper in terms of the religion?

The next hint comes from Caitha. In DS2 her chime could only cast hexes however in DS3 not only can her chime now cast normal miracles she even has normal miracles directly attributed to her via Morne (Tears of Denial/Caressing Tears) Her chime still works well with dark miracles but it seems she is being brought "into the light" so to say.

But Morne's path seems off... It is said that he was a follower of Caitha but now serves as an apostle of the Archbishop telling tales of his goddess who should have no place in Way of White considering there is no mention of her being linked to Gwyn in any way. I believe Morne is working with the Archbishop to try and canonize Caitha as an official part of the Way of White. In DS2 she wasn't a part of the Way of White so the chime she blessed could not perform Gwyn's miracles but now that Morne has made her a "true" god in the Way of White her chime is part of their faith. The "tears" spells explicitly state that they are miracles of Caitha taught by Morne.

Ok, detour time! (don't worry I'm still on topic) What else do we know about Carim? Well the bite rings and Arstor, Earl of Carim tell us that it's probably not a very nice place to live. It seems to be wicked nobles on one side and the church on the other (actually I think Yharnam may have been built up from the design of Carim on a world design level, I'm not trying to link the games in lore, we know they're separate) In fact it's probably why the saints needed knights strong enough to wield Morne's hammer.

So we have a cruel city surely filled with downtrodden people being attended to by saints. I think based on the "subtle" nods and winks in Morne's set and ring we can assume Caitha was once a saint who helped the people by consoling them when they lost a loved one (and in a city like Carim there was surely plenty of death and morners to attend to) As she helped people they would begin directing their prayers to her. She would become revered and through the combined faith of her "followers" she would become a goddess (or whatever passes for one in this game).

This would also fit Velka perfectly if instead of helping the people with loss she was a judge and punished the guilty. Those she avenged would direct their thanks, prayers, and faith to the one who avenged them until she too ascended to godhood through their faith. Both Velka and Caitha are also considered "dark" likely because the thing they "fight" is also the source of their power. No sinners means no justice to dish, no loss and there's no tears to to console, meaning no prayers meaning no divinity.

There's also the fact that Velka's followers are crow people and Morne seems to be a gargoyle (Morne's set) It's possible that becoming a god also affects the followers. The main difference is that Velka is called a "rouge goddess" because unlike Caitha she was never canonized into the Way of White for whatever reason.

Sadly we know very little about Fina besides the fact she was beautiful, posessive, and met Lautrec in prison but oh how popular a beautiful Maiden would be if she provided relif to prisoners as her labor. (and given what we know I'd wager Carim has a very populous prison) But goddess of jail or imprisonment just don't fit a beautiful goddess so she wasn't given a title. (There's really nothing to go on for Fina so I understand it's not super strong here but she is linked to Carim through Lautrec and not stated to be a relative of Gwyn so I feel she bears mention and somewhat strengthens the idea)

Finally, this explains why Velka and Caitha's talisman and chime respectively both benefit from intelligence. Because Faith is another form of magic. I believe in these games "faith" is akin to "insanity magic" where you believe something will happen so sincerely, so faithfully that it actually happens. We know the gods don't grant miracles because you can still use Gwyn's miracles despite him being long long long dead and more directly in DS1 you can still use Nito's miracles even after you've killed him and are in possession of his soul. Gods do not grant miracles in this universe and if faith is an alternate form of magic then the Goddesses of Carim are likely the recipients of a "mass-cast miracle" that elevated them to godhood where their respective followers believed in their divinity to the point it became reality.

FUCK that was long. Here's a TL;DR: Faith is insanity magic and the shit conditions of Carim allow Saints to acheive godhood through mass following and the resulting "miracle"

Oh and the "anathema" associated with Caitha according to her chime is likely that she was once a mere human. That would be the kind of thing I'd want to keep under wraps if I was in charge of a major religion. That people could literally become gods. Yea, no top secret shit there lol.

I haven't had the time to personally go over every item description and analyze it all, but it makes sense to me. Aldritch consumes his victims and gives that essence somehow to Rosaria, who gives birth to the slug-like creatures using those souls or something. I'm sure someone could go way more in depth into this theory than me, but I just thought I'd plant the seed.

Repost from here

So let me preface this by saying I'm addressing exclusively aesthetic concern and the overall feel of the games. Bloodborne and Dark Souls most certainly take place in separate worlds but a little bit of speculation is always fun!

So, after spending quite a bit of time reading about Aldrich and the things associated with The Deep I've come to some reasonable conclusions. One is that you cannot deny the very Lovecraftian nature of Bloodborne and The Deep, in that regard they are extraordinarily similar and Aldrich's name in Japanese is Eldritch (unless I'm mistaken). This somewhat communal link between the visceral aspects of the games serves as a solid foundation to build the theory.

As a previous redditor discussed in a thread I can't recall, the world seems to have four ages that are possible, though we only ever really see two. Dark, Fire, Deep and Abyss; if not ages in whole, at least realms.

What we know of the Dark is that it is a human dominated existence, the end of magic and the end of Fire, undeath halting. We know that Fire is undeath, never ending breath of life- the spark, the flame. We are aware of the Abyss and it's jagged look, its soundless and sightless gaze and its soul-reaping qualities, but even it remains somewhat human, albeit warped.

And then there's The Deep. This is something new. Something far more twisted. It is touched on that the Church of Aldrich created those stitched monstrosities, the disturbing mannequins of life warped and perverse. Those things were formed through the image of The Deep and the dreams of the Devourer. Those thoughts made manifest are echoes of what exists in the age Aldrich wishes to bring about by consuming Gods. If he had succeeded what would have happened?

Now here's the speculation.

The 'borne' universe is what happens if Aldrich succeeds.

Is this canon? I highly doubt it; but I do feel it is plausible as a headcanon. See the universe of the Borne could be after the flame is gone. One where the fire itself has been consumed by The Deep and the monstrosities and horrors are made manifest. The sole survivors of that world live out a new history, hunters come about, the lore begins and soon the past is forgotten buried in ancient architecture and subtle hints.

Again, this is just a theory, but it's a fun one I've been entertaining.

Ok, so there's only one other place we see ice as frequently as we see it in the Boreal valley, and that's in Eleyum Loyce in Dark Souls 2. We also see the only major character in the series to use anything remotely similar to ice, The Burnt Ivory King. Is there some connection between him and the events that transpire in the Boreal Valley?

So on your travels through the Cathedral of the Deep, and through Anor Londo, you come across two unique enemies. They drop two rings between the two of them and only if you kill both will you get the rings. For example, if you missed the one in Cathedral of the Deep, the enemy in Anor Londo will not drop the ring. The rings in question (Aldrich's Sapphire and Aldrich's Ruby) have identical item descriptions relating to how he enjoyed sharing the screams of his victims as he devoured them slowly . My question is, who/what are these things? We know that Pontiff gets chubs from devolving loyal servants into beasts after exiling them, and the Pontiff is working closely with Aldrich. At first I thought that maybe this was a result of cannibalism. The fact that they spew cursed goop at you implies to me that they are in fact cursed themselves. Wouldn't be the strangest thing I've heard/seen in souls. However we know Smough was a cannibal, and the worst that came of this vile act for Smough was being over looked by Gwyn for the position of "Gwyn's Knights", Artorias, Ornstien, Ciaran, Gough. It can even be said that it may be possible that it is how he became so strong the in the first place, another example of this would be the female butchers in DS1, they become huge from devouring flesh. I digress. I'm almost positive that Smough earned the title of Royal executioner instead of being born into royal/deific blood. The point I'm trying to make with Smough is he is not as mighty as Aldrich, he was not a lord of cinder, so if canabilism effected the two enemies that drop the rings in that manner, wouldn't it of effected Smough the same way? So its not a curse from cannibalism...I think. I would love to her what everyone thinks on these nasty creatures. If I'm mistaken about any cannon, please feel free to correct me, its late here so...

In Lothric castle near the two dragons on rooftops you will come across a pair of knights with their backs turned to the player, praying to an empty suit of armor. There's a corpse with an item on the ledge above them. The item is Caitha's chime.

Now, Caitha is the "Goddess of Tears" however her purpose would seem to be closer to mourning the dead and providing comfort to those who have lost loved ones. The fact that these two Lothric knights took the time to essentially make an altar out of what I presume to be their friend's armor beneath the Chime of Caitha shows that they acknowledge her as a true Diety. Something I kind of found surprising since Lothric seems to be all about making it's own religion with Angels and such.

As for her worship being present in the "Aldritch faith" (I really don't know what to call it, the Deep Church maybe?) because just outside of the "deacons of the deep" bossfight we are greeted with 4 statues of the same woman weeping. As far as I've seen these statues are unique to this area. Now it's possible that they're just a random crying woman, I fully acknowledge that but to me I don't think they would just throw some random statues in there.

This is also kind of cool because Caitha is always described as being kind of "sinister". Like she has a good side and an evil side and the two instances I highlighted show how opposing religions took her in opposite directions. In the castle the chime is comforting the knights who are still (kinda) alive while in the Cathedral the statues are weeping for "poor departed Aldritch".