Just curious to learn your reasoning because I don’t get that when I read the Bible

What a great strategy for satan to try to destroy Jesus’s church and the Christian faith.

God is only Love and "there is no fear in love" but I can't imagine anything more monstrous and terrifying than writhing in torture for all eternity.

Maybe you had had terrible church experiences and wanted nothing to do with churches or Christianity anymore, for example. Maybe you grew up with atheists and never got the chance to consider Christianity. Maybe you just didn’t care about religion/spirituality. Maybe you endured trauma at the hands of someone who claimed to be a Christian so you never wanted anything to do with Christians ever again. Maybe you had a severe chronic illness your whole life and had no time to think about anything else.

So God would allow our trauma, ignorance or lack of interest in religion/faith/spirituality to literally throw us into hell for all of eternity to suffer torture forever?!

That’s not God to me. I don’t care. That is not the God that Jesus showed us. Sorry not sorry.

Trust can be hard to give. Once it is broken, it can be hard to bring back.

But without trust, we can only have the shallowest of relationships. Without trust, everything is transactional, and every interaction becomes focused on self interest.

Without trust, love can only be shallow and frail.

Infernalism, the belief that God condemns people to eternal conscious torment, by its very nature, breaks trust.

An infernalist God can, and probably will, spend eternity expressing His infinite hatred of you. Can you trust this God?

No.

You can only appease this God. You can only try and find the correct set of beliefs and actions that will spare you from His wrath. You are left wondering:

"Did I have the acceptable religion?"

"Did I do enough good things?"

"Did I accidentally say something unforgivable?"

And even if, by some great luck, you manage to slip into His heaven, you can wonder for all eternity if it's just a trick.

But if we are to love God, it has to start from a place of trust. We have to trust that He will bring us to the right path, and not trick us, or use us as an example.

If we are to love God, we must trust that He loves us.

This changes everything. Aionios kolasis suddenly is no longer debatable since Jesus was not using the term they would've used for eternal punishment, but more definitely taking about temporary punishment for a person's own good.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BOuC8ISWugLuWApmumKCf8wv7oV69Jtyqrp8QkxxSK4/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.h3gi54rotbxi

As an individual who has been abused and manipulated my whole life, and who was only saved from my own self destruction by The Lamb of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, and still is in the process of healing, i have come to some thoughts which makes it necessary, nay impossible for me to reject the possibility, the likelihood of universal salvation, or at least the salvation of most. I would like to share them here. This is not a presentation of verse for my case, nor is it a theological discourse, only my thoughts formed from reading the scripture, the Church Fathers, and indeed even the Catechism in small parts (yes small parts, not selective parts, i haven’t read the whole thing)

First, love alone can heal all wounds, wipe away all tears, and transform even the most scarred soul into a new creation. Second, we need to stop thinking of sin as something we do to slight God, i dont know if everyone else was taught a similar theology about sin, but it certainly is the way i was taught about it.

Sin is first and foremost a trauma response, sin is a product of our own contempt for ourselves. We think we are not worthy, and in some ways we arent, but not by any fault solely of our own, we are sick, and in need of a great physician, one who loves us more than His own life. Sin is a trauma response to our own scars, caused by original sin.

When someone is so traumatized as to hurt themselves, they often withdraw even from those who love them most, thinking themselves unworthy of love. Is this not what sin is? To draw away from God, from Christ, whose Sacred Heart burns as a raging furnace with love for us? But we think that perhaps we do not deserve to be warmed. We don’t feel safe, because the world has hurt us over and over again, we have done so to ourselves, thinking it the normal way of things. This is not the way of our Father, and neither is it the way of His only begotten Son.

If only we knew how much God loves us, if only we could comprehend it, we would never sin again, not because we would be too afraid to, but because we would feel secure enough to never feel the need to.

So, what does all of this mean? It means that God is love, and also justice, but what is more just than avenging the wrong which made wrong in the first place? If a man is sick the doctor does not blame him for being sick, but blames the sickness and seeks only to rid the patient of their ailment. The physician does not kill the patient to drive out the sickness, otherwise he is not a physician. God also views us all as His children, indeed He formed each of us in our mother’s wombs, and knew what we would be and do before He laid the foundation of the earth. Just as human parents do not, or at least in the right order of things should not, have children to lay ruin to and detest forever, neither can i believe does our Father in heaven. Indeed, He did not form us then abandon us, but gave His only Son, who came down from heaven to suffer His passion, death, and to come into His resurrection, that we may have life and have it abundantly.

So, can i say for sure that all will be saved? No, not any more than i can say that the sun will rise on the morrow or the moon will not fall upon the earth. But i have great confidence that even one drop of the Blood of the Lamb will outweigh the sins of the whole human race.

MATTHEW 11:28-30

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

A little over a month ago I was introduced to CU. After some weeks of research and prayer, I accepted it as truth despite having grown up in a very evangelical, southern baptist environment. Not only is there substantial biblical and extra-biblical evidence for CU, but my heart is simply drawn to it.

With that said, I’m shocked at what a minority this belief is today. I live in a moderate-to-large metropolitan city in the US, and pretty much every nearby church I look up unapologetically states ECT as a core doctrine. I’m somewhat surprised at myself for being surprised by this (hah), because I already knew that’s what most western Christians were taught. But now on this side of the aisle, it’s quite an eye-opener.

For a bit there, I was concerned about what the “popularity” of CU meant regarding the belief itself. Surely 99% of Christendom doesn’t have such an important doctrine flat-out wrong…right? How could God allow that?

Then I remember how the majority of Jews (God’s people through which His covenant of grace extends to the rest of the world) in Jesus’s day got the Messiah so so wrong. Despite having all the scriptures and prophecies regarding Jesus, they were blinded. I feel in some ways that represents The Church today (in many areas, but this one especially). It saddened me even more when I read evidence that CU was likely the predominant belief of Christians for the first 300-500 years of our faith.

I don’t feel swayed in my belief, but it is certainly a challenging reality to wrestle with. I’m curious how the rest of you feel on this topic.

See, often infernalists say to me that the Earth is basically a test. A test to see who is willing to trust in God and make it to Heaven.

If Universal Salvation is the truth and we all will end up in Heaven anyway what is the purpose of placing us on the Earth?

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Could you please provide a Universalist interpretation of this passage? Thank you.

I thought becoming spiritually aware would help. But life is viscerally painful. It feels like a raw exposed nerve. The stress is immense, it feels like cracks are showing on the edges of my psyche. Prayer, church, reaching out to everyone I know who might have help or answers isn't working. Everything is slow and painful. Bills are stacking up, There's no time or place to rest. No one can help or offer relief. The world is plastic and concrete and waste and oppression and wage slavery and the good is so small and so hard to find. I just want to sleep forever. Most normal people have no idea what I'm talking about. No one cares that there's nazis in control of the government or that the planet is dying. Wtf dude.

I am studying Ezekiel 18:23, and through the study I have read many varied opinions concerning what is being said here. Some have sadly have stated that this verse refers to living unbelievers while others believe that it refers to dead unbelievers. What are your thoughts about it? How would you view this verse and why?

I'm wondering what you guys think about this. I can't seem to figure it out on my own and finding the right context is tough.

So I've been attending a church near me since the summer. First church I've gone to as an adult really.

Been thinking of becoming an official member but I have run up on an issue.

Had a meeting with one of the pastors this week. We've met privately a few times and have had a great time, kind of doing basic discipleship stuff.

Anyway, I was asking about membership and mentioned I couldn't find the church constitution online. He emailed me the copy that they'll go over in membership classes because I wanted to read it over on my own. These are all things you have to swear to, to become an official member. You have to be a member in order to volunteer, teach, etc.

Very typical stuff for a Baptist Church, Trinity, divinity of Christ, submitting to church leadership; stuff you'd expect.

But then there's a couple lines I don't think I can honestly agree to, such as inerrancy and eternal punishment.

Not that I don't think Scripture isn't inspired, but there's enough problems to think it's not entirely inerrant. Plus if course I'm a CU.

I can still keep attending the church without being an official member, but I've just got a dilemma. I don't want to be dishonest, but don't know whether I want to be honest about why I can't agree to the Constitution either.

I don't think there's any universalist churches in my area, and I've kind of fallen in love with this church too. It's a dilemma. I'd welcome your thoughts on this one..

Does anybody know any Trinitarian Universalist church that posts their sermons online YouTube? I’m skipping church where I live because there is nothing close but hillsong-like churches. They’re fine and I grew spiritually there but my bf and I realized we were more comfortable just looking on Sunday for different preaching videos online of pastors we like but nothing really close to Trinitarian Universalism, and now that we’re skipping in person church we can basically attend any church through YouTube😂

I have spoken up to my husband that I no longer believe the scripture is the inerrant word of God. I believe the apostle Paul’s writings about women were culturally influenced. I believe he wrote as he understood and that others also wrote as they understood at that time. I cannot debate well. I don’t want to even but I need help to defend my views. I am pretty well versed in the Bible. I have read it through many times over the years. I love scripture. I love Jesus but I have changed. I fear this will greatly impact my relationship with my husband.

I realize that to "eat this elephant" can occur, "bite by bite". But what's the first bite?

Not necessarily a universalism question but I can't seem to find an answer

Assuming we believe the devil is a literal entity, rebelled against God and was cast out with 1/3 of the angels

My question is, why would he or any of them have ever considered going up against God knowing his power is absolute and infinite?

Did he poses free will to do this or was he compelled by Gods plan? Do angels have free will?

I could see maybe one grand angel blinded by delusion as Gods second, but to convince another 1/3 of the angels sounds like madness

Final question as I have seen it proposed that universalism means one day even the devil will be reconciled with God, do you believe this?

Today, my mother asked for prayer for a friend's mother who will probably pass soon. The tragedy is not that she is dying but that despite "years of witnessing" she is "not a believer." It brought up something that's been weighing on me, because I have an elderly aunt and uncle who aren't Christians, and my mother commented a while back that, "They can't die until they know Jesus!"

Death is hard, of course, but they are in their 80s. They are kind, normal people. They should be allowed to pass on whenever they are ready and their lives should be celebrated, but I just know my family is going to lament that they are in hell when that happens.

It frustrates me so much that the first thing my mother asks whenever anyone dies is, "Were they saved?" That's not what people need when they are grieving! People don't need to fear for their loved ones burning in eternal torment because they didn't pray a certain prayer. Especially, when their loved ones were sweet and generous people.

Then on the flipside, if they were "saved," then people aren't allowed to mourn because they are automatically in heaven. "It's not a funeral, it's a life celebration." "They're with Jesus now and having a great time!" Just let people grieve normally!

Luke 13:23-28 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVue)

<23> Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few be saved?" He said to them, <24> "Strive to enter through the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. <25> Once the owner of the house has got up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, open to us,' then in reply he will say to you, 'I do not know where you come from.' <26> Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' <27> But he will say to you, 'I do not know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers!' <28> There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrown out.

So ETC and annihilation Christianity teaches that the bride of Christ is the church, but since we universalist Christians believe that all will be saved then it makes me to wonder that is it something else... Like all of creation or humanity?

I know that bride and groom are allegorical but I'm still thinking this.

Seems to me like all the arguments of Universalism go through without the crucifixion.

Suppose there were no Jesus Christ (in his incarnation). He appears at the End of Days for the Final Judgment. Purgatorium is completed. Everyone goes to Heaven.

Why the need for the Sacrifice of the Lamb?

TBH. I'm still skeptic about many things, and it's affecting my mental health ever since i left my old religion that was actually a cult.

Hello everyone

I am just wondering if there is an accurate translation of the bible out there?

I'd like to finally read the bible from start to finish, but id rather not come across all the miss translations that preach fear and eternal suffering

I've read great books like "That all shall be saved", "the inescapable love of God" etc but they mostly just support the view with reference to texts, I'm looking to more or less read the whole bible as it was meant to be read, if at all possible?

Even if it's just a translation of the new testament that would be great

Hi and God bless you all. 💕💕

I’m sure it’s nothing new but I wanted to share my “story” / how I got here. So I am 15 almost 16 and my family is very Christian, I don’t think I’ve missed church more than 5 times in my life. I always liked the community there but I was confused about a LOT of things including the idea of “hell”. In elementary school I asked my dad if my friend (who was hindu) would go to hell and he said “yes, all we can do is hope she finds the truth”. I remember feeling not just upset and scared, but also mad. I didn’t get how people just casually went about their lives knowing this, and how they could still talk about God’s “goodness” and “saving everyone”. So I did believe in God for a while longer, but looking back it was mostly out of fear. Then, a couple years ago I started using the internet more and found some atheist perspectives. I thought they made enough sense, and there’s no living in fear of something that doesn’t exist so that was that.

However, last month I kept feeling this “pull” toward religion again, and I decided to read my Bible again (mostly the psalms) and listen to worship music. I also prayed for a long time on New Year’s Day, just saying anything I could think of. When I tell you I felt this indescribable peace come over me!!! This wasn’t the only reason, but I knew then with certainty that I believed in a God. It felt like really genuine belief too, nothing forced like before.

I still was conflicted about this idea of eternal torture though. For about a week I prayed in hopes God’s plan would become clearer. And then it did!! I vaguely remembered a post (on the atheism sub, of all places) that claimed Hell was never mentioned in the Bible. I was trying to find the post, and I never did but I did go down a rabbit hole that led me here to universalism. Immediately the rest clicked into place, and it has not been very long but this idea has genuinely changed my life.

Last week, I went to church and I meant everything I sang! God is so endlessly loving and deserving of all the worship!! I of course still have questions, but if God is everything it makes sense He is hard to understand. What’s important to me is that I’m now able to trust His plan and believe it is good. I know I’m preaching to the choir here but I needed to share this, can’t be thankful enough.