Thanks guys for helping this parent understand where our son was going in life. Today he graduated from Emory.

Thanks for all the advice and tips you hand out.

It was appreciated by this family.

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This post is to highlight the opportunity cost between the CAA pathway and CRNA for those who already possess a bachelor's.

Don't make a career choice purely based on money; however, if you are interested in doing anesthesia in a fairly populated city, want to work in the anesthesia care team, and are okay with the geographical limitations, you might be interested in the financial differences.

Check the assumptions at the bottom of the post.

The CAA 26-year-old graduate who spends 3 years living on the post-tax income of an ICU RN ($60,500) will accumulate $277,400 (assuming a 7% market return and a post-tax salary of $145,406 including maxed 401k and HSA as a new grad CAA) by the time the CRNA 29-year-old graduates.

The CAA saved and invested 84,906 every year over 3 years while the CRNA was in the ABSN, ICU, and additional school year. This controls for a similar quality of life over those 3 years by limiting the spending of the CAA to be more in line with the CRNA.

https://preview.redd.it/1a7qvi765c4e1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=98de60df3197bdf7b9073b0946bce6b4b6d20276

The CRNA 29-year-old graduate has 0 dollars saved and receives the same salary because they work with the CAA in a fairly populated city. Controlling for retirement and salary, the CAA, because they saved and invested 84,906 every year over 3 years, will retire 8 years earlier than the CRNA who did the ABSN.

https://preview.redd.it/sk5nyvg85c4e1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=f708cb40a9eb29a1dffd696f4cbbbfc91fcb970c

How much more would the CRNA have to make to overcome the opportunity cost?

Roughly 167,000 post-tax or 230,000 pre-tax.

Remember that is 30,000 more than the assumed 200,000 ACT salary received by the CRNA and CAA.

This means that in order to break even, the CRNA would need to make an average of pre-tax 30,000 more every year for 25.8 years (230,000 vs 200,000 pre-tax).

This assumes the exact same yearly expenditure as the previous examples.

https://preview.redd.it/m16kqm9a5c4e1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=aec0df33805f5b5f132b705a586e43356a44b7c4

Assumptions:

• The CAA graduate is 26 years old

o 24-year-old who goes through a 2-year program

• The CRNA graduate is 29 years old (assumes 1 year of ABSN, 1 year in ICU, and 1 year of extra schooling)

o Assumes 24- starts ABSN

o Takes 3 years longer than the CAA minimum

o Most CRNAs have more than 1 year of ICU experience; this is the fastest way for the sake of argument

• Assumes CAAs and CRNAs working in the ACT are paid post-tax 145,406 a year (including maxed 401k/HSA).

o (This is pre-tax, 200,000, and seems about average for 40 hours of no-call)

• Assumes the only retirement contributions are a maxed 401(k) and HSA; all leftover income ($118,256) is spent

• Assumes the pre-tax RN salary is 80,000 or post-tax 60,500 (no 401k or HSA contributions).

• FIRE calculator is used to aim for the age of 54 because who wants to retire normally, right?

• Ignoring the cost of an ABSN and prerequisites

• Assuming the debt of a CAA or CRNA is equal, or they graduate debt-free

o If you have debt, you can add on a few years you expect to spend paying it off

• Does not account for the value of 3 years of raises working for an anesthesia group that the CAA will have over a CRNA

So recently it’s come to my attention that there is currently a bill in the New York State Senate that proposes the idea of CAAs being able to practice in NY. We honestly need this, a lot of CAAs have to leave their home state and families behind to work. Being able to practice in your home state and not be forced to be away from family for months or even years at a time would be a life saver.

Go support this bill! Even if you’re not from NY, by supporting this bill it increases the chances it will get passed and may influence other states to consider allowing CAAs to practice.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2023/A10498#:~:text=Relates%20to%20licensure%20of%20anesthesiologist%20assistants%3B%20establishes%20requirements%20for%20such,limited%20permits%20lasting%20one%20year.

Scroll down to the blue box that asks “Are you in favor of this bill” then click ”Aye” and it will lead to to sign in to vote to support. There is also a text box in the submission so feel free to express to them your personal reasons for why this CAA bill should pass.

Hi! This is my first post on this sub! I am a current SAA1 in Texas. As I begin to request my general rotation sites for my second year, I have the opportunity to go out of state to the south Florida area. This is an area I’d love to live and work if I do not stay in Texas. I know that CAAs in Texas have delegatory authority while CAAs in Florida have full licensure. I’m want to see if there are any CAAs that are familiar with the CAA environment in Florida (as well as Texas) and which is better as far as responsibilities, relationship with attendings, and opportunities. If any Florida CAAs or Texas AA grads that have made the move could weigh in, that would be awesome! I hope everyone has a great holiday season :)

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I have a class project that includes conducting an informational interview with a CAA that's actively working as an anesthetist. Is there anyone here from ABQ that would be willing to be interviewed? I'm open to in person or Zoom. Please DM me to coordinate if interested. I can provide a copy of the questions I have in advance as well. Thank you!

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So recently it’s come to my attention that there is currently a bill in the New York State Senate that proposes the idea of CAAs being able to practice in NY. We honestly need this, a lot of CAAs have to leave their home state and families behind to work. Being able to practice in your home state and not be forced to be away from family for months or even years at a time would be a life saver.

Go support this bill! Even if you’re not from NY, by supporting this bill it increases the chances it will get passed and may influence other states to consider allowing CAAs to practice.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2023/A10498#:\~:text=Relates%20to%20licensure%20of%20anesthesiologist%20assistants%3B%20establishes%20requirements%20for%20such,limited%20permits%20lasting%20one%20year.

Scroll down to the blue box that asks “Are you in favor of this bill” then click ”Aye” and it will lead to to sign in to vote to support. There is also a text box in the submission so feel free to express to them your personal reasons for why this CAA bill should pass.

Hey guys, I'm keeping a master list of all CAA programs in an Excel sheet so I can easily keep track of them and their requirements (I'm a pre-med considering applying to AA school in the spring).

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ip4vtluVfNlwlkvs74kstH--h10smKKGIap5aZVi2h4/edit?usp=sharing

I know there have been a few other things posted like this, and there's already great info on Anesthesia OneSource, but I just prefer having quick access to compare all programs within one spreadsheet.

I figured I'd just share it here in case any other prospective AA students find it useful :)

P.S. I'm still working on finding certain info for some programs. I'd also eventually like to add columns for things like average and competitive GRE/MCAT/GPA, but it seems like few programs are sharing that info right now. Different schools seem to vary greatly on what sort of info they make public haha.

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By chance I was able to shadow an anesthesiologist for a few hours about two weeks ago and it was an interesting experience. When I went and met with the anesthesia admin she asked what I was, premed or pre-CRNA to which I answered and said I actually planned on going to AA school. She responds with "Oh if I had known that I wouldn't have approved your application. We don't have those here", with here being the hospital I was at. I immediately said how I was actually thinking more of pre-med but I say AA so I don't get bothered by people waxing poetic about their med school experiences. She smiles tells me to think on it and be more sure about what I want to do. For the rest of the time I was there I had to lie and say that I was premed so to not get antagonized. I understand going to a hospital that has CRNAs instead of AAs I should've been more careful but actually experiencing the obvious bias was interesting.

The actual shadowing was nice, it really reinforced that this is the field that I want to go in. Learning the difference between a neuro case and a general OR case was my favorite part. Running was involved, something I was not prepared for lol. When the doctor I was with had to go to a board meeting he left me with one of her CRNAs who told me about her experience in schooling, as an ICU nurse, etc. I asked what she thought about AAs to which she replied that CRNAs get more leeway, can open their own practice, how its more cost effective for the hospital since the ratio is 1:6 while with AAs it'd be 1:2. She ended with saying while she doesn't necessarily find the job redundant there is a place for everybody in the world.

Finally, the doctor invited me to come back the next day but unfortunately I am not able to as his operations director said no. Turns out they want to prioritize the current medical students and need to leave spots open for them instead of pre. I emailed them but they haven't answered so I don't know if I should ask the doctor for another chance; the problem being I already told him what his higher-up said so I do not think he would want to go against what they said. The only sucky part about this day was the lying meaning I don't get the hours signed off officially for the schools which once again is my fault, maybe I should've stood my ground.

With that being said if anyone has any tips on how to shadow when all the hospitals around me are CRNA instead of AA filled please share.

Just wanted to get this off my chest to you all as I feel like you guys would understand the most.

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At what age do you plan to retire? Also do you see a lot of older CAAs in the workforce? By older I mean over 60 yo.

It’s hard to want to pursue a career that isn’t allowed in most states.

But I see they are actively allowing more states ex: Washington in march 2024, so that gives me hope!

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The AAAA is excited to announce our fall fundraiser, and we need your support! As a close-knit community, we’ve made incredible strides over the past few years, expanding our practice across multiple states.

Your contributions are vital in giving CAAs the freedom to choose where to practice while continuing to champion physician-led care.

👉 Join us in making a difference! Click the link below to donate. Every bit helps, and together, we can achieve even more!

Thank you for your generosity and support!

https://www.anesthetist.org/donate?fbclid=IwY2xjawF_cW9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHZZFyZPB_GDdDFDTZS-rJ_tpjAKPnliBAhgYLzSFJTZWUlqREC7xgyi0jA_aem_g6JLaNNMtYgBJEqImZq3ow

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