Regardless of the previous ones, which deluge did the ancient greeks know of? I didn't know they had a great flood myth, though obviously it was common in many cultures at the time.

My family and I got aquaventure day passes for when our cruise is docked in Nassau. Does this just include the aquaventure water park or would we be able to snorkel, swim with dolphins, etc as well!

The Micronesian Nan Madol is the closest "modern day" analog we have to what an Atlantean society could have been like, if we were to place Atlantis back to 11,600 years ago at the mouth of the Mediterranean, per Plato.

https://youtu.be/Vh7Re5DdQH8?si=4aA3rMh6siNt62ey

Hi everyone,

I’m doing a paper on Atlantis and one of my questions is based around the controversy on whether it is real or not. I believe it is real, but I cannot use myself as an argument since it has to be objective so I wondered whether any of you guys could tell me why you believe Atlantis is real.

Thanks in advance!!!

this map gives a great perspective of how populated the americas was even back into 9000BC these people have long history of migration in the continent beyond. ALSO provide an equivalent population that would bring fear onto the European,asian and African continents.

https://preview.redd.it/gp1p3nnu6y3e1.png?width=1838&format=png&auto=webp&s=df7c657070801c1690d757265dc61cb9a71d290b

New "Brill's Companion" to the philosopher Crantor: He provided us with the important testimony that the Atlantis story allegedly was written on stelai in Egypt. And there is even a mention of my Herodotus book in this companion! :-)

https://books.google.de/books?id=G-gxEQAAQBAJ

https://preview.redd.it/clk0qsqod43e1.png?width=498&format=png&auto=webp&s=be6fc0b7eb392ad1c103de505afe4fee684fcbab

I've been tinkering with online conversion websites, but it's still a bit confusing for non-math-brain-me. Just trying to wrap my artist brain around the dimensions of Atlantis city, the canals, and the central plain.

Mainly, I just don't trust my results, I need expert input, so I've come to folks here. I've been reading comments for a few months and figure that someone here has traveled this path.

So my questions revolve around what's the correct starting point. Was Plato using Roman Stadia? Greek converted to Roman or something similar? What is the right measurement to converted.

For example, using the converter below:

1 Stade = 625 Roman feet = 185 meters = 606.9 US feet = 125 paces = 1/8 US mile

Is this correct?

Also, do you guys use converters? If so, what's your favorite? The one below is the best one I've found, and easiest to use, so far.

Thanks in advance for your input.

https://www.convertunits.com/from/stadia/to/mile+[statute,+US]

Let's fact check the publication of this user, shall we?

https://www.reddit.com/r/atlantis/comments/1gq1e26/factual_inaccuracies_about_the_atlantis_story/

1. Herodotus never drew any maps. The "ancient" map constantly posted (and even being presented by morons like Bright Insight as "his greatest achievement") is a modern sketch based on "Histories", titled "The world according to Herodotus".

This is a reconstruction map based on Herodotus description of the "world" known by the Greeks. Nothing strange or weird was represented and it's in fact, accurate.

Herodotus (Histories.4.184&185) said: "Another ten days' journey from the Garamantes there is again a salt hill and water, where men live called Atarantes. These are the only men whom we know who have no names; for the whole people are called Atarantes, but no man has a name of his own. [2] When the sun is high, they curse and very foully revile him, because his burning heat afflicts their people and their land. [3] After another ten days' journey there is again a hill of salt, and water, and men living there. Near to this salt is a mountain called Atlas, whose shape is slender and conical; and it is said to be so high that its heights cannot be seen, for clouds are always on them winter and summer. The people of the country call it the pillar of heaven. [4] These men get their name, which is Atlantes, from this mountain. It is said that they eat no living creature, and see no dreams in their sleep."

I know and can tell the names of all the peoples that live on the ridge as far as the Atlantes, but no farther than that. But I know this, that the ridge reaches as far as the Pillars of Heracles and beyond them. [2] There is a mine of salt on it every ten days' journey, and men live there. Their houses are all built of blocks of the salt; for these are parts of Libya where no rain falls; for the walls, being of salt, could not stand firm if there were rain. [3] The salt there is both white and purple. Beyond this ridge, the southern and inland parts of Libya are desolate and waterless: there are no wild beasts, no rain, no forests; this region is wholly without moisture.

Garamantes lived in Libya, Egyptians lived well, in Egypt (East).

And thus Atarantes lived in the west. Atarante is a BERBER word which comes from the word ATAR/ADRAR which means MOUTAIN(S).

In modern times, Atar is the name of a city in Mauritania and Adrar is the name of region (in Mauritania/Algeria/Mali) but also a city in Algeria.

Atarantes lived between the Atlantes and the Garamantes (Central Sahara, i guess)

Atlantes (of his time) lived at the extreme west of NW Africa in The Atlas mountains, next to the Pillars of Hercules.

Although during his time, the south of the Atlas mountains was a desert.. The Sahara was green and humid +11,000 years ago. A plain existed in the Adrar region.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/cabot/news/2023/green-sahara.html

Plato said :"The plain around the city was highly cultivated and sheltered from the north by mountains" & "The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea;"

2. I am a native Greek speaker and a linguist by trade. In "Timaios", Plato writes "πρὸ τοῦ στόματος εἶχεν ὃ καλεῖτε, ὥς φατε, ὑμεῖς Ἡρακλέους στήλας", which literally translates as "In front of/Beyond what, as you say, call the Pillars of Heracles". Thus, he is definitely not talking about the Mediterranean or 2000 klm southwest of the Pillars (Richat).

You are not the first speaker nor the last. There are several peer-reviewed versions of the book, translated by licensed professionals. Although minor differences exist, the whole story remains the same.

Plato gave more contexts to that quote.

"And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus."

Gadeirus= word from the Berber language of North Africa.

&

"he most famous of them all was the overthrow of the island of Atlantis. This great island lay over against the Pillars of Heracles, in extent greater than Libya and Asia put together, and was the passage to other islands and to a great ocean of which the Mediterranean sea was only the harbour; and within the Pillars the empire of Atlantis reached in Europe to Tyrrhenia and in Libya to Egypt."

&

his power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

"he is definitely not talking about the Mediterranean" 🎪🤹🤡

3. By Plato's time, the Greeks were already trading with the Berbers. If Plato meant the Richat, he would most likely address the area by name, instead of describing an island in the ocean. Since the Greeks knew the Berbers well enough to adopt Poseidon from them, they must have also known were they dwelled, right?

The story of Atlantis was not an essay from the Greeks, but an account reported from the Egyptians who had reported it themselves from someone else.

Although ancient Berbers worshipped poseidon and claimed Atlas as their first king, the story of Atlantis happened 9,000 years before them.

4. The term "νήσος" was used for peninsulas only when they were connected to the continent via a thin strip of land (see Peloponnisos). This is also why some scientists speculate that the Homeric Ithaka may in fact be Sami, the west side of Kephallonia.

Thats the case (see picture)

https://preview.redd.it/wjokumlyiw0e1.jpg?width=510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8b5bc250dbad5e712d93fea42df7a184f5699d

5. There is no "Atlantean stadion". Converting ancient Greek measurements into a conveniently fictional unit is clutching at straws at best. The only thing Richat has actually going for it is its shape.

So was the Greek stadion used in the story?

The Egyptians nor the Greeks did not knew where Atlantis was, but they knew the value of the unit used by the ancient atlanteans?

That doesnt make sense.

The word used for the unit of lenght was likely translated, but the values were not converted.

6. I can't believe I have to write this, but Youtubers and hobbyists are not more credible than scientists. Always keep in mind that, whatever you may know about Atlantis or any other similar subject, you owe it to the archaeologists, as well as the linguists and translators, that helped preserve and spread Plato's body of work, as well as thousands of other ancient texts. No one wants to hide anything. In fact, scientists would easily jump at the chance to discover something of such importance.

Who are the scientists you're talking about?

All the TV documentaries i saw about Atlantis, were centered around Crete, Greece or the Americas which totally contradict Plato's story. The "specialists" involved are thus, not credible to me.

And i'm sorry to burst your bubble but taboos and agendas exist in archeology, just like in any other field.

7. George Sarantitis, who I often see referenced in this sub, is an established electrical engineer. He may be very passionate about the subject, but he is far from an expert on it. According to his bio, his Ancient Greek knowledge is of high school level (same as any Greek who has simply finished high school). You wouldn't trust a plumber over a doctor if you had serious health issues, right?

I'm not familiar with this person, but the analogy is weak. Certain fields are technical and some are not, and thus dont require specific skills. Intellectual fields like History, Litterature or Arts are way more accessible to the general public than medicine, chemistry or biology.

8. Athens didn't even exist in the timeline described by Plato.

I'll not engage in a subject that i don't know about.

9. "But they found Troy". Indeed, they found the ancient city (and nothing that proves that Iliad was historically accurate). However, contrary to Atlantis, Troy was a big part of Greek literature and art. Atlantis was only referenced by Plato (who was famous for his fables and fictional dialogues). Also, 90% of the cities referenced on the Iliad actually existed (many still do).

The references of a land called Atlas (Northwest Africa) and its description existed before the story of Atlantis.

The story of Atlantis was nothing but the story of the land of Atlas when it was greener and humid.

10. Greek mythology should not be taken at face value. It was constantly revised, even during the ancient times, and often varied depending on each city's preference and interest. Besides, we are way past the "thunders appear because Zeus is pissed off" stage. And we definitely know way more than the ancients. "Access to ancient sources" does not necessarily mean "access to more credible ones".

Good. Plato was right

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/plato-was-right-earth-made-average-cubes

11. The only original source of the Atlantis story is Plato. Everyone else wrote about it at least three centuries later, influenced by his work. Plutarch, for example, was known for fabricating fictional biographies of important people, in order for them to mirror someone from another era. He most likely pulled the Egyptian priest's name out of his ass.

Herodotus stated that Solon traveled in Egypt. The story came from Solon according to Plato.

12. "Libya" was how the Greeks called the whole of north Africa during the ancient times. Similarly, "Asia" meant the sum of Asia Minor and the Middle East.

Egypt is next to modern day Libya and it was never called Libya.

Northwest Africa was refered to as the land of "Atlas" by the Greeks, even before the existence of Plato (b.425 BC) and then Mauretania centuries later.

Hesiod (b.700 BC) [in Theogeony.507]said that (Atlantis the titan)stood at the end of the world. During that time, the end of the world was considered to be the Pillars of Hercules.

https://www.reddit.com/r/atlantis/comments/1givu0i/ancient_greeks_only_used_atlas_to_the_northwest/

13. The ancient Greeks were a maritime superpower. They a)would never mistake a river for an ocean and b)be dragged by the currents, and think that, instead of going south, they continued to the west. They knew the Mediterranean like the palm of their hand. They had even established colonies as far as Spain and North Africa. How would they ever confuse it with the Atlantic Ocean?

Once again, the story of Atlantis was not from the Greeks....

14. There was an unidentified maritime/pirate nation (the Sea People), a city lost in a day (Santorini) and two unidentifed civilizations (Malta, Sardnia). Thus, plenty of material to inspire a believable fable. A few decades before "Timaios", a maritime empire (Athens) became extremely arrogant and was finally humbled by the backwards Spartans, despite being powerful and Democratic (the ideal state). What better way, then, to criticize the arrogance of your own city-state (without being prosecuted for it) than presenting its misdeeds in an allegorical fable, with changed names, locations and timeline.

Well, according to Herodotus, Solon traveled to Egypt. Plato wasnt even born yet when Herodotus stated it.

If its a fable, then why does the description match with the region of Atlas? Why did they use that name in particular? Why are there traces of mudfloods and landslides of cataclysmic proportions in that part of the world that are estimated to be +11,000 years old? Why does the Richat structure match with the description of the capital city?

Sardinians (Sherdes) were part of the Sea people. They left specific genetic mutations in certain populations. But that's not the subject.

15. Aristotle, who was a student of Plato, wrote that the Atlantis story was fictional.

That was his opinions. But existing evidences are not fictional nor opinions BUT a reality

[Map of Atlantis in the AC Odyssey pc game]

Personally, I believe that the Atlantis story was simply one of Plato's famous fables, created in order to convey political and social commentary (how corruption and arrogance can destroy even an ideal and incredibly powerful state). However, since I enjoy reading all this speculation in this sub, allow me to identify some of the factual inaccuracies that I come across in an almost daily basis:

1. Herodotus never drew any maps. The "ancient" map constantly posted (and even being presented by morons like Bright Insight as "his greatest achievement") is a modern sketch based on "Histories", titled "The world according to Herodotus".
2. I am a native Greek speaker and a linguist by trade. In "Timaios", Plato writes "πρὸ τοῦ στόματος εἶχεν ὃ καλεῖτε, ὥς φατε, ὑμεῖς Ἡρακλέους στήλας", which literally translates as "In front of/Beyond what, as you say, call the Pillars of Heracles". Thus, he is definitely not talking about the Mediterranean or 2000 klm southwest of the Pillars (Richat).
3. By Plato's time, the Greeks were already trading with the Berbers. If Plato meant the Richat, he would most likely address the area by name, instead of describing an island in the ocean. Since the Greeks knew the Berbers well enough to adopt Poseidon from them, they must have also known were they dwelled, right?
4. The term "νήσος" was used for peninsulas only when they were connected to the continent via a thin strip of land (see Peloponnisos). This is also why some scientists speculate that the Homeric Ithaka may in fact be Sami, the west side of Kephallonia.
5. There is no "Atlantean stadion". Converting ancient Greek measurements into a conveniently fictional unit is clutching at straws at best. The only thing Richat has actually going for it is its shape.
6. I can't believe I have to write this, but Youtubers and hobbyists are not more credible than scientists. Always keep in mind that, whatever you may know about Atlantis or any other similar subject, you owe it to the archaeologists, as well as the linguists and translators, that helped preserve and spread Plato's body of work, as well as thousands of other ancient texts. No one wants to hide anything. In fact, scientists would easily jump at the chance to discover something of such importance.
7. George Sarantitis, who I often see referenced in this sub, is an established electrical engineer. He may be very passionate about the subject, but he is far from an expert on it. According to his bio, his Ancient Greek knowledge is of high school level (same as any Greek who has simply finished high school). You wouldn't trust a plumber over a doctor if you had serious health issues, right?
8. Athens didn't even exist in the timeline described by Plato.
9. "But they found Troy". Indeed, they found the ancient city (and nothing that proves that Iliad was historically accurate). However, contrary to Atlantis, Troy was a big part of Greek literature and art. Atlantis was only referenced by Plato (who was famous for his fables and fictional dialogues). Also, 90% of the cities referenced on the Iliad actually existed (many still do).
10. Greek mythology should not be taken at face value. It was constantly revised, even during the ancient times, and often varied depending on each city's preference and interest. Besides, we are way past the "thunders appear because Zeus is pissed off" stage. And we definitely know way more than the ancients. "Access to ancient sources" does not necessarily mean "access to more credible ones".
11. The only original source of the Atlantis story is Plato. Everyone else wrote about it at least three centuries later, influenced by his work. Plutarch, for example, was known for fabricating fictional biographies of important people, in order for them to mirror someone from another era. He most likely pulled the Egyptian priest's name out of his ass.
12. "Libya" was how the Greeks called the whole of north Africa during the ancient times. Similarly, "Asia" meant the sum of Asia Minor and the Middle East.
13. The ancient Greeks were a maritime superpower. They a)would never mistake a river for an ocean and b)be dragged by the currents, and think that, instead of going south, they continued to the west. They knew the Mediterranean like the palm of their hand. They had even established colonies as far as Spain and North Africa. How would they ever confuse it with the Atlantic Ocean?
14. There was an unidentified maritime/pirate nation (the Sea People), a city lost in a day (Santorini) and two unidentifed civilizations (Malta, Sardnia). Thus, plenty of material to inspire a believable fable. A few decades before "Timaios", a maritime empire (Athens) became extremely arrogant and was finally humbled by the backwards Spartans, despite being powerful and Democratic (the ideal state). What better way, then, to criticize the arrogance of your own city-state (without being prosecuted for it) than presenting its misdeeds in an allegorical fable, with changed names, locations and timeline.
15. Aristotle, who was a student of Plato, wrote that the Atlantis story was fictional.

David Miano has produced an interesting video on Plato's Atlantis, you can find it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YheoGon4XDA

He presents his arguments, why he does not think that Atlantis was a real place. He also talks about my idea about Aristotle and Atlantis.

Please find here my discussion of the arguments and ideas of David Miano:
https://www.atlantis-scout.de/atlantis-david-miano-engl.htm

A lot of people question Plato's time of the sinking of Atlantis. Except there's evidence of a change that happened 11,600 years ago. It was called the Younger Dryas.

Here's some information about the Younger Dryas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltwater_pulse_1B

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2005PA001170

Several scientists found that a vast amount of glacial meltwater dumped into the Gulf of Mexico at the same time that Plato said Atlantis sunk.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0012821X82901121

A coincidence? Or evidence?

Anyone had any thoughts on Critias not being actually written by Plato? There's a paper suggesting the same, but I don't actually find it that convincing. What I do find convincing (a bit) is that if you read Timaeus it says that Athens was 9000 years old, and Egypt 8000. Then it says there's a war between Atlantis and everyone in the Mediterranean, and Athens saves everyone including Egypt. But that couldn't have happened 9000 years before, because Egypt was only 8000 years old. 🫠 If you read alternative translations, they don't say the war happened then, they say something like 'regarding this civilization of 9000 years old' (I'll see if I can find a link later). In which case there's no problem, until Critias, which clearly says the war happened 9000 years beforehand.

Thoughts?

Athena provided a weapon or war strategy that caused the atlantian war party to be routed and push back to their islands.

a nuclear weapon to atlantis conventional at-lat-ul . The long range of the bow must have been a force multiplier.

"It’s believed the atlatl spear thrower was first developed around 30,000 years ago in the Upper Paleolithic period by hunter-gatherer cultures across the globe. Archaeological findings suggest the atlatl became widely distributed among early societies who relied heavily on hunting large game, or megafauna, such as mammoths and bison, for their survival.

Some of the earliest peoples known to have used the atlatl include the Clovis culture in North America, as well as ancient groups in Europe, Australia, and Asia."

https://preview.redd.it/8dd6f1248fzd1.jpg?width=770&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44e822dae48b42fa4f7324ff25dad07aaa77f5e9

https://www.discoveryuk.com/military-history/the-history-and-usage-of-the-atlatl-spear-thrower/

"the bow and arrow at different times across various cultures, generally between 15,000 and 2,000 years ago. In many parts of the world, this transition occurred during the Late Paleolithic to the Neolithic periods. For example, in Europe, the bow and arrow started to become the dominant projectile weapon around 10,000 years ago. in North America, the bow and arrow were adopted much later, perhaps somewhere between 500 BC and 500 AD, gradually replacing the atlatl."

the fun part of this quest for atlantis is to aknowledge the ancient skills humans of the past were capable of mastering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTMNdJem00

16:00 min