Take part in a #NIDA research study by completing a 60-minute online survey telling us about your recovery. You must live in the US and fluent in English. Click link to see if you qualify for the survey. https://researchstudies.nida.nih.gov/2115

Hiya,

I have been talking to a newcomer in an AA room. They are one of us. I had noticed that they had been making a lot of meetings, and the few times they shared, said some good new sobriety things. They have a sponsor somewhere/somehow; none of my business. It is cool that they come before the meetings and mingle, and stay after the meetings and mingle.

One day we got on the topic of prayer in AA for the atheist. He asked my for my opinion, and I said no no no. I got no opinion, laughing. But, here is my experience, strength, and hope, laughing harder.
Talk with your sponsor too about this.

However, I shared my experience. (below) What is yours?

I don't have an axe to grind again any religion. They do their thing, and I do mine.

I don't believe in anything, hardly, not even magic, so I can say the words that they call a prayer and use it for a focus, a reminder. I know that I forget things, a LOT of things. I know that humans forget things.

It has been shown all throughout history that people have to keep practicing crafts, arts, skills that are important to their livelihood or happiness. I know that I knew nothing about being honest, happy, humble, etc.

Before I sobered up, I was a liar, depressed, braggard, etc. piece of crap that nothing, not even modern medicine could cure. I then worked the AA program, I stopped drinking, which was amazing to me. Then, I started getting sane and started getting all these other benefits.

I found that I had to keep reminding myself about principles, or I would start drinking again or start being bad again. For it to work, like it says in that great sixth step in the 12&12, I just had to be willing to try to these 'principles': honesty, happiness, humility, discipline, etc. whatever. So, I come to AA to be reminded of a set of good enough principles. I see them in practice in my brothers in sisters.

And for a focus, the words in the prayers, eh, are good enough, and they are easy to remember. Sure, I could use songs I like or write my own poems or stuff, but fuck. I am lazy. These are good enough.

They are not fuckin' magic. They won't covert you while you aren't looking.

That's my experience. What's yours?

Time.🕰️

What are some of your thoughts on the pointed internal inconsistences listed below? In my search for evidence (as a Christian by "birth" until age 30) I have discovered some of these points along with the assignment of the term "Miracle" to phenomenon that are simply statistically unlikely or unfalsifiable.

"The resurrection story — arguably the single most important event in the Bible from a Christian perspective — is told in a number of different ways. Here are just a few of the inconsistencies between those versions: • In Matthew, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea (Matthew 27:57-60). In Acts, he was buried by a different group of people (Acts 13:27-29). • Matthew (28:2-5) and Mark (16:5) report that the women at Christ's tomb saw one person or angel. Luke (24:4) and John (20:12) say there were two. • Mark states that Jesus died the day after Passover meal (Mark 14 - 15). John places the event on the day before the Passover meal (John 18 - 19)." -Why There is No God" by Armin Navabi-

I took over this sub when it was inactive. However, I don’t have the time to devote to modding it right now and I wanted to know if any of you would like to take over as top mod? If so please leave a comment or send me a DM.

Hiya, I don't want to post at the other sub because, well, you know why

Anyway, I have a number of years, yet lately I have "fallen of the beam" somewhat. I have been a bit more angry than before, and I have been having problems managing expectations. And, here I am, all in my head again.

It doesn't help that my go to people have turned sour. And I guess that is the problem. I don't have my regular tools anymore. And as we know, it is difficult to find people of our stripe 🦓 to truly, truly get close.

I will have to add more new meetings and find people, in new locations, maybe even some online. And that's okay. I would like to blame X, Y, or Z.

But it is me. I got to get busy.

I get to let go to win again.

Anyway, our journey keeps going. c

Prospective Participant,

My name is Elizabeth, and I am a second-year student in the California State University-San Bernardino MSW program. As part of my degree, I am required to conduct a research project exploring a social work issue. I have chosen to study experiences of spirituality among people in recovery from drugs and alcohol addiction, specifically Narcotics Anonymous members.
This is a voluntary and confidential interview that asks about your personal experiences with spirituality. It does not ask for your name or any other information that can identify you. The interview takes approximately 30-45 minutes to complete. Please contact me at (209) 730-6356 if you are interested in participating.

Thank you!

This study has been approved by the California State University, San Bernardino Institutional Review Board.

This is not a marketing thing.

There's this guy, David Poses, who wrote a book about being subjected to every kind of "God Squad" and 12-Step Internment Camp there was, including some top ones. They did not work. What worked for this guy was Buprenorphine, i.e. Suboxone, and some cognitive work. When I checked this book out on Amazon Market Sales Rankings, it ranked higher than any other recovery memoir out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOIMvltFS5E&t=22s

Hiya,

I learned that we practice in our rooms how to handle things, communication, happiness, conflict, whatever. Then, when we are ready, we will be able to handle the real world.

This is especially true for us. If we can handle those three letters, chapter four (don't get me started), people talking about "the other big book", we will be able to handle a lot of the real world without alcohol, drugs, or without going out and buying a new flame thrower.

Recently, someone from my past reached out: online. And, as we started to get involved, they used quotes, a lot of quotes, from the bible.

I have been lucky enough to not have an experience like this before.

It is like talking to someone who uses emojis I do not recognize. I can parse the sentence. A noun and a verb and maybe an object or whatever. They mean something. But, you know they reference something outside of themselves. Or, it is like that old Star Trek episode Darmok. There is an entire story behind that quote.

I am not going to engage. I am not going to ask them to explain. I let a lot of these quotes slide. But after a few pauses, I have to respond.

I am a nice, loving person, with and without this program. I tell them straight out. I have no idea what that means. I am not religious. We are on similar but quite different paths. I am not religious. We are both good. And I leave it at that. They push it. Of course, they push it. I just repeat small sentences and deflect to other topics. "I am not religious, but we are both good. Anyway, are you doing any of the new diets?" "How's the family?" "Seen any movies?" Etc.

This is not my issue. I don't control it. As we say, my side of the street is clean.

The cool thing is that I don't get stressed or mad about it. I don't have to drink or drug over it. I don't build a resentment about it. I was kind to the other person. I was going to say I guess I need to get out more, but I don't know. Maybe I need to stay in more.

The point is so you don’t have to read the whole thing yes, I became an atheist at first because I was mad. But my backstory is in 2010 I was depressed as hell. And I start going to church, and it actually helped I was enjoying the music I was making friends then two years later my uncle had colon cancer and my mom‘s been drinking a lot ( she’s been alcoholic for a long time before the diagnosis happened) so I prayed to cure the cancer and have Mom stop drinking couple months later my uncle died and my mom wouldn’t stop drinking. So I moved out of state to get away from this toxicity, because Im starting becoming an alcoholic. And I start going back to church but I don’t get the kick as I used to. I noticed the worship music is the same lyrics over and over and over again at the point I’ve been rolling my eyes. And the message seems to get repetitive to me . Then in 2016 things were getting worse. I continue praying of mom stop drinking that never happened. and I noticed a lot of Christians I was being with are anti-LGBTQ, and being high and mighty, because Trump is about to become president I was praying for the business I used to work and get better, but I got laid off. Then I said “ that’s it. I’m done.” And honestly, I felt 20 pounds got out of my chest living my life to please a man in the sky that may or may not give me a thumbs up. And then six years went by I’ve been actually doing some research I’ve been looking up some atheist videos. And I’m just wondering is my reason it is actually good becoming an atheist?

My home group is a traditional group meeting twice a day every day. I am one of a very few atheists in the group and being on the sage of the Bible Belt you can imagine how often there is discussion of the Christian God.

The group also reads from Twenty Four Hours a Day at the start of each meeting. Today’s entry crosses the line between religious and spiritual in a severe way. The afternoon meeting was almost exclusively discussing God in a way that wasn’t really sobriety based. What is your go to thing to say or share to realign a meeting to spiritual, not religious, matters?

I’ve been going to a lot of secular meetings lately and have gotten feedback from the members in the groups. I asked them their opinions on the Big Book and traditional meetings to get more insight. A majority of them said that they don’t read the Big Book and that they use alternative steps that are secular based.

I wanted to ask you atheists, agnostics and freethinkers about your opinions and experiences with the Big Book and traditional A.A. meetings. Is the Big Book relevant to agnostics and atheist? Is the Big Book prejudice against agnostics and atheist?

The Big Book as a whole is riddled with God talk. After reading “Sober without God: The practical 12 steps to long term recovery” written by Jeffrey Munn along with other secular 12 step books, I realized that there are several variations of the steps without all of the God talk.

I follow G.O.D (Good Orderly Direction) which to me is the 12 steps. I’ve turned my life and will over to the care of the A.A. program. I had to use acronyms to conceive a higher power of my understanding because I do not believe in intervention. I do not believe there is a supernatural power in the universe that intervenes in human affairs. I had to discover a more practical, tangible G.O.D (Group of Drunks).

I would like to hear the experiences of you atheist and agnostics with “God” so that I may receive more insight to support my journey to recovery.

How are you this week? What wins would you like to celebrate, opportunities did you find to grow, or support do you need? Anything else you want to share?

2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—our group conscience as guided by love and power greater than ourselves. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

Source: https://cvilleweagnostics.home.blog/twelve-traditions-secular/

What is your secular version of Tradition Two? Care to share your experience, strength, and hope related to Tradition Two?

2. Came to accept and to understand that we needed strengths beyond our

awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.

Source: https://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Secular-12-Steps.pdf

What is your secular version of Step Two? Care to share your experience, strength, and hope related to Step Two?

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol (addiction) – that our lives had become unmanageable.

This idea came from a post I made to increase activity in the sub. What is your secular version of Step One? Care to share your experience, strength, and hope related to Step One?

Taken from https://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Secular-12-Steps.pdf.

The main AA sub is incredibly active and I would love to see even a fraction of the activity here. What would get people more interested in posting and commenting? We probably won’t have as many newcomers, but I would love to see that, too. Thoughts? Ideas?

I have recently come across this sub and it seemed to be very interesting, however I couldn't find much information on how the 12 steps work without the G-word. It has always appeared to me like christianity is very intricate to the 12 steps program, so the thought of the process without religion is very appealing, but I can't find much information regarding it.

If anyone could help me out on how to get started, it would be very helpful.

I'm checking out the 12 steps. I know I'm powerless over my compulsive eating and although I'm not a deist, I could probably think of something that's more powerful than me that actually cares whether I'm abstinent or not.

I went to a couple AA meetings. They were great. Funny, inspiring. Mostly guys but definitely mixed. Such humor.

Decided to go to OA because compulsive eating is really my problem.

Those meetings are so joyless, humorless. Lots of groveling and self-critism. I think it might be because they're almost all women. IMHO women are already broken down, humbled and discouraged from having confidence or a sense of humor. The steps are familiar because they seem to confirm this attitude.

I fought that s#t off. Defied Abusive Daddy God and refused to kiss his ass. I developed self-confidence. I won't go back and don't want to be around women who buy into it.

But I think the steps are cool despite the male- and God-centric language. I think I'm okay with code switching.

Anyway, I'm trying to find Meetings where the steps are actually a JOYOUS experience. I guess I'll keep trying. Glad this subreddit is here.

I was recently given mod privileges over this sub and have reopened it to allow posting/commenting again. I am hoping this will once again become a space where nonbelieving 12 steppers can support one another.

Also, I want to be transparent about the fact that although I am in long-term recovery, I am not a 12 stepper myself. I still value this space, however. I see the way some people respond to nonbelievers who comment on other subs, so it makes sense to have a space where you can share your experiences free of judgment. I am also open to bringing on mods who have more relevant experience with the 12 step program. Now, with that said...

Go crazy!