/r/AskFoodHistorians
We welcome posts related to any period of history in any region of the world. Topics can include but are not limited to: history of recipes, menus, ingredients, cooks, cookbooks, kitchens, kitchen tools, dining habits, kitchen furniture, culinary education, culinary apprenticeships, politics and food, religion and food, social movements and food. People come here to learn and discuss; please engage respectfully and read the subreddit rules before posting.
We welcome posts related to any period of history in any region of the world. Topics can include but are not limited to: history of recipes, menus, ingredients, cooks, cookbooks, kitchens, kitchen tools, dining habits, kitchen furniture, culinary education, culinary apprenticeships, politics and food, religion and food, social movements and food ...
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/r/AskFoodHistorians
Essentially anything from before the modern era of being able to import almost anything via airplane and grow things en masse in greenhouses/other unnatural environments.
Here in the UK, I can't think of any fruit or vegetable in a traditional dish that doesn't grow here naturally. Fruits like bananas/oranges/lemons/tomatoes have been around for ages but wouldn't be considered a traditional ingredient in anything obvious at least.
Things like cocoa/coffee/tea/various herbs and spices have long been imported to Europe but that's all I can really think of.
There are of course many examples of non-native crops becoming hugely important to a country's cuisine, the potato being perhaps the most obvious one, but I believe that in the majority of cases they can survive there year-round with minimal human intervention.
As an example of what I'm talking about, the Korean chilli pepper/Gochu has long been ubiquitous in Korean cuisine despite the fact that no chilli pepper plant would survive their winters (I believe).
I've been able to find info on when we first started using them in cooking, but I can't seem to find anything on when we first started salting/brining them.
Everywhere people seem to have farmed lots of different kinds of starchy staple tubers (or corns, or rhizomes) potato, sweet potato, white yam , ube, murnong (3 different species), oca, cassava, Taro, Konjac, Yampee, yamaimo, ubi gadong, tugi, fiveleaf yam, pencil yam , whitespot giant arum, sunchoke, pia, puraka, etc, some of these are all in the 'Yam" genus but a lot of these "yams" are unrelated
from australia, the pacific islands and south east asia, through east asia to Japan in the far north, across to south asia and subsaharan africa and in the americas,
meanwhile Europe only seems to have some taproots that are much more vegetably or low starch/ more fiberous (radishes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, rutabaga) before the potato was brought over)
Modern mincemeat has no meat component (not counting animal fat). Medieval mincemeat has meat. What were the stages of this evolution and what were the pressures behind this?
My partner and I are discussing cream cheese frosting - when did this become a prominent cake frosting? Thank you!
Hello! Been doing some extensive research on the history of the pretzel and encountered an interesting roadblock -- many sites repeat this same historical "fact" that the earliest possible instance of a pretzel either depicted or mentioned, is in the Vatican codex 3867. This specific codex is a famous one, the Virgilius Romanus, from the 5th Century. If this were true, not only would it push the origin of the pretzel earlier than most suggest it should be, but it would also show that it wasn't exclusively of Christian origin (which would be significant given the long historic use and symbology of pretzels in Christianity). However, you can view the manuscript online, and I can see no depictions of a pretzel. Nor have I found anywhere quoting the manuscript, mentioning pretzels.
Is this simply wrong? Is the codex number wrong? Am I missing something? If not this, then what is the earliest depiction/description? The earliest I've found otherwise is this one, from an 11th Century illuminated manuscript.
Separately but related, the date always cited as the origin date in 610CE -- where did this date come from? I can find no origin source.
I’m curious as to why the two forms gained traction in their respective regions and what the history of vanilla use there looked like in general
Many countries in the Americas ended up having African food traditions or ingredients central to their modern-day cuisine or national dish. Examples:
Brazil: Feijoada
USA: Soul food, barbecue
Cuba: Ropa Vieja
Haiti: Griot
I know these countries suppressed cultural practices from their African-descendant populations. So how did so many foods and cooking techniques of African descent end up being so mainstream in these countries’ foods today?
I am aware of Irish potato vodkas but all I'm aware of are relatively recent inventions. If any nation on Earth seems most apt to produce potato vodkas, it would be Ireland. Is it simply because whiskey distillation predates potato harvest (occurring prior to the settlement of the New World)?
I've seen a few reports over the last few years that black Americans are somewhat more likely to be vegetarians than Americans in general. Has anyone written about the history of black vegetarian movements, black vegetarian cuisine development, etc. in the US?
I'm thinking wine and escargot in France, but I know there must be a lot more than that.
This question has been niggling at me since I read this line in E.F. Benson's Lucia in London a number of years ago. The context: Two women are indignant about their friend Lucia's having entertained a bunch of posh people from London, without inviting any of her local friends to join them. After the posh folks have left, the two women refuse Lucia's lunch invitations. One of them says:
There’d have been legs of cold chickens of which her friends from London had eaten wings.
Elsewhere in the series, there are a couple of references to chicken legs being inferior to the breast, a perception that carries on into the present day. But I don't understand chicken wings being a delicacy, or the better part of a chicken, circa 1920-1930.
I’ve been doing some research on staple foods around the world, and from what I understand Rye was a lot more widespread in central and Northern Europe during the Middle Ages but in modern times it’s not quite as widespread. I’m curious as to what mechanisms made this happen. In addition, how prevalent were wheat or other grains earlier in Rye growing areas earlier in history before wheat rose to today’s dominance?
Today, celery is not a major crop produced in Louisiana or adjacent regions, though bell peppers and onions are.
Was celery shipped down the Mississippi, like Bourbon? Could poor and rich people alike access celery?
Is the frequent inclusion of celery a fairly modern thing?
I understand salt was highly taxed so the Tuscans went without but did anyone else do this? Also thank you food historians! We love you!
A couple of weeks ago there was a post about truffled turkey that sent me down a research rabbit hole. I thought some of you might enjoy the resulting piece of writing.
"The Lost Indulgence of Truffled Turkey."
https://historicalfoodways.substack.com/p/the-lost-indulgence-of-truffled-turkey?r=1n7r7o
I noticed a lot of restaurant menu/catered holiday meals menus in the US around 1900-1940 would have an appetizer listed of assorted olives, relishes and celery. How would this have been traditionally served? Communal plate for table, individual portion, or some other combination?
I'm looking for books about the history and culture of food - Japanese, Italian , French, etc. so far, I only found History of Japanese Food written by Ishige Naomichi but the book was published in 2001. I'm looking for something that are written in 2010 or later.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nutiE8gJ6KY
In this YouTube Short, a woman is shown to recreate a Medieval pork fillet recipe. It is roasted on a fire and sauce made from egg yolks, flour, saffron, pepper, and ginger is applied in layers. The video does not say the name of the dish. Does anyone know?
Asking as a woman that only wants chocolate around mine, and specifically chocolate not just sweets in general!
In a video about the daily Roman diet I heard "Bread for a slave" mentioned but couldnt find any source mentioning it. What was this slave bread like, how did it taste and how was it made?
I was reading memoirs of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna, daughter of Nicholas I of Russia, who wrote that the court doctor prescribed her mother, Charlotte of Prussia, the following diet: "no liquid dishes, no soups, but roastbeef, mashed potatoes, milk based porridge and a bitter orange peel" (translation is by me, I'm reading this in Russian).
A friend of mine, who is dealing with modern day GIT diet, told me this does not sound healthy. I reminded her that the modern day GIT diet also bans "strong" broth, and vegetable broths would not be something anyone would want to eat outside the Lent.
Am I right in thinking that the majority of soups a Royal family could order was what would nowadays be considered "strong broth" and the diet prescribed to Nicholas I' wife actually makes sense (if only for the fact she lived 20 more years after this)?
I've run across a phone book listing for June's Kitchen, 6346 S. Kenzie mentioning "home of the Polish pizza." Just wondering if anyone has the specifics!
This was in the Heian period (794-1185) and a precursor to Honzen Ryori (本膳料理). I've seen it described as "consists of rice, raw meat, dried fish, fruit and confectionery," seasoned "with salt or vinegar by themselves because this cuisine was tasteless." However, I've just seen pictures showing cooked food that looks a bit modern and I can't find any specific examples of dishes. Does anyone know of any specific dishes or recipes that were served at these meals or know where I could find them?
Some links:
https://www.foodinjapan.org/japan/daikyo-ryori/
https://piece-of-japan.com/eating/full-course-meal/history-of-five-cuisine.html
Hello! I’m too late for this year but next year I would love to host a thanksgiving meal utilizing only foods that are indigenous to North America! Obviously, wild turkey is good to go, and I want to make acorn flour to use for crust/flour. I was thinking tying to forage American groundnut/hopniss to use as a potato fill in. What are the foods I could use that would have been available to forage, hunt, or grow in North America pre-European contact?
A random question that I've been trying to research to no avail is what varietal of apples would have been on the Titanic since we know from their menu and ledgers they DID have apples. Same with the other fruits but apples in specific have been haunting me, any educated guesses would be greatly appreciated.
For instance, if the most important foods in history were for example: wheat, meat, and salt; the tools would be a scythe(or plow?), a Shepard’s staff, and something for salt, not sure what that would be. More recently, there are certain pesticides or fertilizers that have been very impactful on food growth, but have not covered nearly as much time as the previous inventions.
I had a chance to spend some time with a mature historian, in downtown Salt Lake. He says at about 50 south main there used to be some kind of a railroad car made into a long thin dinner. It could seat about 50 people side by side.
They served pancakes. These pancakes were baked in a 3-4 inch deep sheet pan. Each pan made about 6 pancakes. The product was more cake like. It was a very popular place to each especially for miners and blue collar workers.
These cakes were more cake like than the fried bread I am used to. Anyone know of a recipe I could use to make a pan of these?
The fellow said that they used ovens that were mostly outdoors. Covered not enclosed.
Historically speaking, is grilled cheese considered a breakfast or lunch food?
My husband and I rarely argue over things, but grilled cheese has definitely been the one that keeps coming up.
He insists that grilled cheese is, and always has been, a breakfast food and refuses to eat it if its lunch time or later. He tells me how he's been all over the US and everywhere he has gone, it's been a breakfast food.
I grew up with it being a lunch thing. Like the idea of eating that much cheese in the morning is awful to me (but that may be the lactose intolerance speaking.)
So please, someone educate me on this. Tbh, he hella stubborn about it so even if I show him proof it won't really change how he feels about it and that's fine. I just want to make sure I haven't been living in an alternate reality or something for my whole life.
I was keen to find a book of recipes from pre-1500, ideally from as many different countries around the world as possible but would also consider ones from particular regions. It's for a gift for a friend, I'm doing research on my own but also interested in if anyone here has any favorites : ) Thanks