Wondering what other people think about these ideas. I’ve been thinking about it a lot and just can’t seem to cement anything that I think will actually happen. It seems like a toss up. But I also don’t have all the information. Maybe someone else has either something optimistic or something I don’t know about. Would love to hear your opinions.

So of course the holidays mean more family time, and today on the way home from Thanksgiving, my husband decided to launch into a speech for our son about god and how amazing it is that he died for our sins, etc. He said so many cringy things like how Christians are kinder, more compassionate people and how amazing it is that god created the world, and all that stuff about how if the earth wasn’t perfectly the right distance from the sun we’d all die.. blah blah.

Anyways it was too much for me and even though I usually just put up with it, I questioned him because he had pissed me off earlier by being an asshole to my family. I asked “why do you think any of this is even true? What proof do you have that god is real or that Jesus rose from the dead?”

He went on a long ramble about stuff but basically his answer was that the disciples saw Jesus rise from the dead and ascend to heaven, and they believed it so much they were willing to die for it. I told him the men who flew the planes into the twin towers were willing to die for their faith, and he said that’s different because they never saw Allah.

Is there even ANY proof at all that anyone who personally knew Jesus died for their beliefs? Did anyone who supposedly saw him after his resurrection directly write about it? And if so, how could I explain to him that sometimes people are just stupid and gullible and want something to believe in?

It’s so irrational to me because otherwise he is a pretty smart man. Though honestly he is often rude, snarky, and selfish. Why the fuck does he hold on to this god thing? It would make him look like the worst Christian ever.

Hi everyone! Same-sex marriage is a pretty controversial topic, ik, but so far atheists have been the most insightful when it comes to topics like this. So I decided to ask here

To be frank, I am an atheist. I myself agree to the terms of same-sex marriage. I still need to fill myself with more information to make my stances stronger in my school debate, especially when

a. my opponents (and teammates) are Baptists, Catholics and JWs (i told my teammates i was in charge since they didnt know how to agree with the proposition) (howeverr the said baptists are a queer couple so—)

b. I live in a Roman Catholic - dominated country

c. Mentions of religion might be prohibited, but the “unwritten rule” within our people being “a male should always be with a female” will be accepted.

Now that that’s said— feel free to put any arguments and points here! All are appreciated. I’ll try to counter them similar to how my opponents would. Thanks a lot!!

I know most atheists don't belive in any post-mortem conscious existence. But if it hypothetically did exist and was up to you, what would you ideally want it to be like?

I’m sure this isn’t an original thought.

As humans, we’re naturally inclined to project ourselves and to anthropomorphize just about everything. You’ve certainly felt this if you’ve ever owned a pet.

Do you think useful to consider the “god” concept as a human personification of the universe? It would explain why we tend to create gods in “our image.” Do you think it helps explain why so many people intuit a god? Or is this interpretation dumbing down a topic that deserves a little more nuance?

Here's a question from an atheist to other atheists. I encountered a user named Inevitable-Buddy8475 who recently posted his own question in this sub-reddit. He then engaged with a bunch of atheists including myself.

On several occasions he said "I know that atheism is a belief" despite being routinely told that atheism is actually defined by a lack of belief. He repeatedly ignored the definition and would sometimes respond with hyperbole like "just like I misunderstand every atheist that I've proven wrong by now." Real delusional. Dunning-Kruger effect vibes.

Finally, when I had him cornered, he tried to do a reversal. He then posted the dictionary definition for atheist, which includes the word belief obviously, and tried to pretend like that's what he was saying all along despite repeatedly saying "atheism is a belief"

My question for you is whether it is worth dealing with bad faith actors like this. Do you think there is an argumentative pathway in which you can somehow get the person to calm down, put their ego aside, and actually have an honest and productive conversation. Or do you think it's never worth the hassle and that we should abort at the earliest sign of a bad faith argument.

Appreciate your time on this.

I think it is very interesting that amongst judeo christian belief, some of the most important ideas that are fundamental to the religion, have no general consensus.

Ill starts with soteriology. The study of salvation. This is quite a large concept when determining how our afterlife is going to go. It would seem to me, that something of this magnitude and importance would not be left up to interpretation by god, but despite its immense role in religion it isn’t well defined. So undefined that we have a whole section of study dedicated to trying to understand what salvation is and how to get it. Within this field there are hundreds of views. If you really try too you could narrow it down to maybe 20 that can encompass the majority of the ideas well enough. Even then there is no great way to know which to be true. There is no consensus within a religious context either. If you asked 100 Christians, even within the same denominations, you would get varying answers depending on their subjective interpretation of the information, with some very confident in their knowing it to be true. This does not even try to rectify inconsistency in a multi denominational religion like Christianity. So how are we properly saved? There is no consensus.

How about heaven and hell. Even an older pew research study shows that 72% of Americans believe in heaven and 58% believe in hell. So roughly half the population has some belief in hell and amongst that using a study from pew we know the split between catholic and Protestant are split fairly evenly. Amongst those 58% it’s broken down that this belief mechanism is wildly inconsistent. Ranging from more liberal Christian ideas of separation from god, to Mike winger who has an awful justification video for hell which is almost laughable, to William Kane Craig who believes in Divine command theory and thinks the descriptions in the apocalypse of Peter and the apocalypse of John to be accurate. So who is right? Which one figured it out and has an answer? No consensus.

Let’s get very broad for a moment and just talk about the sheer amount of denominations that are part of Christianity. Again, this is very wild that god would allow such a wide range of discrepancy when this religion dictates eternity, however I digress, there are over 2000 denominations that are recognized worldwide and over 200 in the United States. Each one with its own unique stance on one subject or another. Ranging from small things like if Jesus had a physical or spiritual resurrection, to larger aspects like if Jesus was actually the son of god. Even tiny things such as who agrees about which disciple is considered more accurate or credible. Again, no consensus.

At face value, without any deep dissecting, this general lack of consensus on ideas within the religion makes it dubious and untrustworthy. if there isn’t a clear consensus on crucial aspects it’s just left up to our faculties to discern the truth, which we don’t have a good track record of. Especially considering that the general consensus hasn’t improved over 2000 years. This seems to be an incredibly sad internal defeat of abrahamic religions. Even the Christian Reddit subs have a Christian vs Christian debate day. It seems to me like as a religious group, they should at least have solid ideas before proselytizing.

A comment here mysteriously disappeared. If the person who made the comment and asked me To respond sees this please dm me as I was mid response when your post was either removed or deleted 😂

I cannot tell you how many times I've been told that I misunderstood an atheist's argument, then when I show them that I understand what they are saying, I attack their arguments, and they move the goalposts and gaslight, and they still want to claim that I don't understand what I am saying. Yes, they do gaslight and move the goalposts on r/DebateAnAtheist when confronted with an objection. It has happened. So I want to make sure that I understand fully what I'm talking about before my next trip over to that subreddit, so that when they attempt to gaslight me and move the goalposts, I can catch them red-handed, and also partially because I genuinely don't want to misrepresent atheists.

Problem of Evil:

"If the Abrahamic God exists, he is all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing. If he is all-loving, he would want to prevent evil from existing. If he is all-powerful, he is able to prevent evil from existing. If he is all-knowing, he knows how to prevent evil from existing. Thus, the Abrahamic God has the ability, the will, and the knowledge necessary to prevent evil from existing. Evil exists, therefore the Abrahamic God does not exist."

Am I understanding this argument correctly?

Omnipotence Paradox:

"Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift? If yes, then there is something that he cannot do: lift the rock. If no, then there is something he cannot do: create the unliftable rock. Either way, he is not all-powerful."

Am I understanding this argument correctly?

Problem of Divine Hiddenness:

"Why would a God who actually genuinely wants a relationship with his people not reveal himself to them? Basically, if God exists, then 'reasonable unbelief' does not occur."

Am I understanding this argument correctly?

Problem of Hell:

"Why would a morally-perfect God throw people into hell to be eternally tormented?"

Am I understanding this argument correctly?

Arguments from contradictory divine attributes:

"If God is all-knowing, then he knows how future events will turn out. If God is all-powerful, then he is able to change future events, but if he changes future events, then the event that he knew was going to happen did not actually happen, thus his omniscience fails. If God is all-knowing, then he knows what it is like to be evil. If God is morally perfect, then he is not evil. How can an all-knowing, morally perfect God know what it is like to be evil without committing any evil deeds? If God is all-powerful, then he is able to do evil. If God is morally perfect, then he is not evil. How is God able to be evil, and yet doesn't do any evil deeds?"

Am I understanding these arguments correctly?

Are there any more that I need to have a proper understanding of?

I saw them going in, I had groceries so I was curt and dismissive. Now I'm out to eat, and I'm wondering : should I engage when I get back? They already know I don't hold the bible in much regard, but maybe I can counter some of the younger one's brainwashing.

I have an hour to decide

Edit : they moved before I came back.

I am a lifelong athest. When I was younger, Christianity seemed to accept their assertions were claims of fath. Fundamentalism has pushed many people in seeing these as claims of fact now....an accurate description of the universe.

For purposes of public education, I can't understand what makes these religious claims rather than statement of (bad) scientific fact.

Let's suppose a science teacher said God is real, hell is real, and these are the list of things you need to do to avoid it.

What makes it religious?

It can't be because it is wrong.....there is no prohibition on schools teaching wrong things, and not all wrong things are religion.

The teacher isnt calling on people to worship or providing how to live one's life....hell is just a fact of the universe to the best of his knowledge. Black holes are powerful too, but he isn't saying don't go into a black hole or worship one.

The wrong claim that the Bible is the factual status of the universe is different from the idea that God of the Bible should be worshipped.

What is the answer?

Like books that dissect miracles like the shroud of Turin or eucharist through philosophy or point out scientific inaccuracies. Or articles and blogs that keep up with "responses" to atheists about miracles or evolution.

I see so many posts about atheists on the fence because there are things that they don't know. One of the best atheist arguments is that we are allowed to say, "I don't know." Everybody else says, "I don't know, therefore God." It's the God of the gaps. Isaac Newton invented calculus to explain the solar system, but didn't know why it didn't fall apart after a few thousand years. He said that God must help. Then comes Einstein with Special and General Relativity that explains what Newton attributed to God. The solar system works if you add Relativity to Newton's math. "I don't know" is an empowering statement. I don't know why the Big Bang happened, but that doesn't imply that God did it. We have string theorists who have possible answers. We have mainstream physicists working on it. Atheists: Don't be afraid to say that you don't know. Theists: Please remember that "I don't know" does not prove God. Feel proud to say, "I don't know."

“If not god, what created the universe?”

My answer is I don’t know. I believe that the Big Bang happened, but I also believe there had to be some starting point before that. If there’s no starting point and the universe has been around for an infinite amount of time, then I would be typing this an infinite amount of time ago which can’t be possible since I’m typing it now. That at least makes sense to me. I have no idea what cause the matter involved in the Big Bang to form, but the theory of it being a god raises more questions than it answers.

This is just my answer, I’m sure other atheists out there would disagree.

In the Quran, chapter 52 verses 35 and 36, Allah challenges the nonbelievers with three simple questions: Were they created by nothing? Were they the creators of themselves? Or were they the creators of the heavens and the earth?

The logical answers to those question are no, no, and no. Then where did matter come from? A singularity of pure energy? Where did it come from?

Disclaimer: this will be long

There is a fungus called Ophiocordyceps unilateralis. Or, more widely known, the cortyceps fungus. And even more widely known, the “zombie ant fungus”. This fungus hijacks the ants motor functionality in an effort to expose it, in an attempt to increase its chances of being eaten. This way the cortyceps can gestate and propagate its next life cycle.

I remember thinking it would be absolutely awful if something hijacked my body and mind and used me to maintain itself in the larger community. Imbedding itself in me and forcing me to comply…..

LThere is a virus called Toxoplasma gondii. It’s found in mice. And it has a very niche audience. Cats. The virus in order to survive has to be consumed by cats in order to gestate and have any continuity. A very specific audience for such an important purpose. This virus is similar to the cortyceps fungus in that it alters the mind of the mouse to be bold and confrontational instead of heeding its traditional instinct to avoid predation. This makes the mouse standout and oftentimes gives disregard to nearby predators. This fundamental change stems from the reprogramming of the virus.

I had similar thoughts about this as the cortyceps. “This is awful, it took control of another living creature and twisted its very nature to ensure its survival. What purpose could this serve in the greater world?”

So what the fuck does this have to do with heaven and hell and religion?

Recently I deconverted. I have another post about it and I figured I would follow it up with some of the ideas that pushed me away from Christianity and really became concrete over time as “fallacious” or outright ridiculous. The virus and fungus above were the greatest irony to myself as I thought about how terrible and awful it would be to be controlled by something and have my mind toyed with and manipulated. And now I realize….. I was. I was under control of the virus of indoctrination and religion. Manipulated against my will and held in place, exposed, and consumed by my own emotions. Not just some predator, but consumed by my own faculties. Hostage by my own understanding of the world.

I gave a lot of thought to the ideas that seemed to hold me down more than others. Of course I felt guilty, I felt “sinful”, and it’s difficult to address those things but it didn’t necessarily hold me in place. And as I was navigating the plethora of religious tools that nailed me down I looked upon the ideas of heaven and hell. And what they meant to me, and what they actually were.

HEAVEN: THE DISAPPOINTMENT OF FALSE PROMISES.

I grew up thinking I could possibly go to heaven. This wondrous place with streets of gold and biblical mansions. Beautiful gardens abundant with fruit and olives and blessed with the greatest love, gods presence. I imagined a great big mansion, just for my family and all the family pets. I would see everyone I loved in life again. I dreamed about how amazing it would be to be in a state of eternal bliss with my favorite People. But is this what heaven actually is?

In my teens I started thinking about what eternity was. How long that was. I thought, I could count every piece of sand on my nearest beach shore, and I’d only just be starting. I could move to the other coast, and pick up every piece of sand there, and it would be nothing. How about if I went to every beach in north and South America, and somehow I could count every grain of sand and keep track of my progress. It would be quite a long time now. Probably many generations. Still not eternity. What if I went to every continent? Under the water of the oceans? What if I finished counting every grain of sand on earth? It would be insignificant to eternity……. I have to zoom out more. What if…. And this is a big jump…. I counted every grain of sand in our solar system. And then I moved into the cosmos. I’m sure if you wanted to you could continue this process yourself, finish this galaxy, finish multiple galaxies, all the planets, all the grains of sand. And you finally get to the end of this universe, somehow counting every grain on every planet in every system. You would forget everything about earth and anyone you loved it would be so long. And you wouldn’t even begin to have lived eternity.

This terrified me as a child. Heaven immediately became grotesque and a nightmare. My streets of gold became sand and existential dread. My biblical parable house built on sand crumbled.

Around this time the people I was around started making the fantastical mythos of the Bible into a more rigid system of worship. Now heaven was subservience to god. Constant prayer. Constant worship. Forever. An absolute nightmare. I realized heaven was not heaven. But an abomination, a field of zombified ants prostrating. This thought began the skeptical analysis of my theological views.

HELL: IS TORTURE MAN MADE?

I have spoken about hell before. Looked at the historicity. Contended with its multiple interpretations of ETC, separation, rehabilitation, lake of fire, etc…..

I want to approach this with a different idea. One i pondered on today. I want to talk about what torture is.

Noun: the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something.

The act of torture is an act of people on other people, and invented by people. I doubt most theist would like the idea that torture is made by god. I think either way of looking at it discredits the premise of torture in hell.

If we take the perspective that people invented torture, then what is in hell? If torture is a tribalistic derived man made device of action to inflict pain and suffering. Then what does torture look like in hell? Is it even torture? Or is it more likely that while we developed religion that we superimposed our own ideas of suffering on a place that represents all that is bad? I recently read a book called “the better angels of our nature” by Steven pinker. Don’t be deceived by the title, Steven pinker is a renowned atheist and psychologist, who in this book describes the human journey of aggression over our history. It shows that over time we have become more peaceful, but it wasn’t always this way. While we were still young we exhibited characteristics of early tribal warfare for dominance. Much like how chimpanzees, even thought they are vegan, will dismember captives of other groups and devour it in order to show dominance. The intended message of this? “Stay away from our space”. This idea evolved with us and we saw the utility of pain and displays of suffering as a tool to be used and not just as a grounds of establishing territory. So torture was invented. A gross idea manifested in human nature. Not made by a god. So once again, are we the arbiters of hell? Did we create it? Of course we did. I have a post that outlines some vague creation of hell using scholarly references like Bart ehrman and others. Using this we can see its development over time. However from an introspective view the foundations of torture can be used to show its development as well, and can even assert that we have no information on hell since we made the ideas that support it.

The other side to this is if god created torture. It does say he creates evil after all. Many theist dance around this idea since it harshly contradicts the idea of god being all good. Some say “well…. It’s a matter of justice. God has to be just and so punishments deserve justice, infinite justice even, since god is infinite and sin is an affront to god”. Quite the gymnastics to make on behalf of a god who can’t talk. However, if god did create all of experience and made torture for its intended purpose, that seems incredibly malicious and vile. Upon further study of the old testament god you probably wouldn’t put it past yahweh to invent torture since he was an obvious fan. But this is a problem for me. Hell only appears after the introduction of the New Testament. At least in the old testament after god was finished killing you and everyone for miles for looking at his commandments you were actually dead. But in the new testament, the savior of mankind, the most humble, caring, and loving messiah gives the ultimate prescription for eternal torture. Seems uncharacteristic and certainly uncharitable. It’s almost like these ideas were used to justify the actions and disposition of the old testament god to make the selected gospel canon make sense.

THE OUTRO: FINALLY…..

I write this to hopefully help expose some of these ideas for what they are. Easy to accept on the surface, but with just a bit of thought become scattered and incongruent. I have to be honest and confess that even as I write about these concepts I still actively struggle with them sometimes. Even after leaving the faith. I find myself staring at the ceiling at 4am thinking about hell. Again. But now I have this information along with all the other information I have researched to help put these ideas to rest with their fathers. I sincerely hope that this reaches an audience that needs it and that the ideas are helpful is showing our blindness to the sickness and predation of religion. And that some of these fundamental ideas of fear and control can be beaten, with time and thought.

I hear atheists sometimes say I like your Jesus just not the people that claim to be his followers. Atheists seem to not really have a problem with Jesus and his teachings. Like when the woman was caught in adultery and the law demanded she be stoned to death and he said "whoever is without sin cast the first stone." He despised religious hypocrisy much like atheists do today.

[I'm not an atheist or a Christian although I do believe God sent Jesus into the world to reveal what Deity is like. ]

I am someone who used to be a Christian, and I was talking about my issues with what the Bible calls faith, and was told that I wasn't doing enough. I wasn't praying, reading the Bible, or seeking "genuinely" enough and that if I have faith in Jesus first, then ask him to reveal himself, then I will experience him for real. This struck me as odd because I can't think of anywhere else that having faith in something before having ample evidence of its existence is a way to truth (correct me if I am wrong there, I just can't think of anything). I did pray, I did read the Bible, I did look at the arguments, they just didn't convince me...

Edit: The conversation actually stemmed from me asking them what it would take for them to leave their faith, since we sometimes talk about religion (though they would call it a relationship). They answered nothing would change their mind, and the conversation took a turn to an interrogation of sorts, and a diatribe about how some Bible verses say that my mind has been clouded by foolishness. Lots of fun I tell you...

This morning I went to church again for the first time since I left the faith. I went to support my girlfriend’s little brother being baptized. I already had my reservations about this but since he was sincere and was choosing to do this action himself I decided it would be good to support him and show him I show up when it matters.

It was an episcopalian church that from the outside was very modest. The interior didn’t appear to be overly proselytized. But once I approached the nave I was overcome by all the old feelings I had that were associated with church. Like a bad memory. I was holding out expectations though as I didn’t remember church being “that bad”. But from the beginning of the service I was appalled.

Today is the 3rd day of November so of course the service was about All Saints’ Day and All Souls’ Day. The entire service is about death and had this huge drag of speaking about the afterlife and all of it was just blatant lying. The mother Helen claimed all kinds of fallacious statements such as “god will never forget you” and the such. Which anyone who has any biblical understanding knows anyone marked off in the book of life is forgotten by god. This is a supposedly liberal church but it’s been perfectly engineered to be liberal and inviting and cherry-picked all the preferable verses while leaving out all the negative, but maximizes the emotional appeal of religion and tries to use only emotional appeal for indoctrination. It was disgustingly. I constantly found myself appalled by both my new and old self. I was ashamed that I ever bought into the word pageantry of the gospel.

When it was over I felt gross to sit in the pews, to smell the familiar incense and almost gag at what I saw. In one service, 15 children were baptized and each one felt like the world lost what could be an amazing and creative life. But it was stifled by the prayer of letting go of ambition and the natural world and just accepting Christ.

It was a vastly different feeling to what I once felt. I at one point bought into the feeling of Christ and felt the presence at church and believed it was justice and righteous to be present in the house of god. Now all I feel is a deep disgust and I felt nothing sitting in that room of empty lies being told to children. All I see now is the harm it brings to the world.

Disclaimer: Please, read my entire post before answering any of it, it's all I ask.

This post is IN NO WAY an attempt to defend Mohammad's action. I do not agree with it, nor follow Islam. This post is more of a question I'm bringing to those of us who believe morality is subjective. I usually argue that we can call things "immoral" or "moral" by using our personal opinions, experiences and observations on how our actions affect others. We also usually tend to develop a natural intuition about certain actions as we grow, and most of us have empathy, fortunately. I argue that these are the basis of every human being to determine what's "good" and "evil" in the history of humankind. Even religious people are using their subjective opinions in the end of the day.

Now, my question is, was child marriage really considered normal back in Mohammad's day? If that was the case, if this was normal to people back then, if they thought it was good, then why are we so certain that our judgement on his actions is the right one? I believe his action was disgusting, and it certainly caused a lot of suffering to his victim. But if such a practice was normal back then and they saw it as acceptable, how would you prove it was actually immoral and evil? I'd say this is the classic objective morality vs subjective morality issue.

My key-point is: If many of us don't believe in objective morality, then why are we so firm and certain in calling it disgusting and wrong? (From a more critical point of view)

Hi all, I myself am an atheist and I have been as long as I can remember. I was wondering what it’s like for the people who had to kind of “reprogram” their beliefs.

I wasn’t baptized, never said grace, or went to church. Although I went to a catholic school until I was in third grade (because it was a private school, my mother didn’t actually care about the religious part) but that never did anything but make me question the logic in the Bible. I got sent to the principals office many times for my questions even though no one could give me a straight answer.

So naturally I just sort of believed the whole Christianity thing was bogus from the get-go, but I’d like to hear what the process is like for someone who was more deeply embroiled in it before they came to the same conclusion. Thanks!

Hey guys, I'm a theist (Hindu), though this past year, I've attempted to become more open minded as I've wanted to explore more religious/non-religious perspectives. I've tried to think of ways as to how morality could exist without a deity being in the picture. I haven't completely failed and gave up, however I am unsatisfied with my own conclusions to the possibility since they almost end with "why should I? what is stopping me from going against this moral barrier?," and so I want to learn from others, specifically Atheists, on how morality can be proven to exist without a god.

I think in the first place is that you have to give up your whole identity, to follow something you can't ever proof existed, making you doubt yourself and lose yourself eventually

So, my brother and sister were extremely abusive toward me growing up. Not your typical 'sibling rivalry' stuff, but genuine abuse, ranging across the spectrum, including emotional, physical, mental and sexual abuse. I'm not going to get into the depths of it, because I want to sleep tonight, but it lasted years, stole my childhood from me, and has, to this day, as a 42 year old man, emotionally stunted and mentally unwell.

My therapist asked me, this week, what forgiveness means to me. First, in order for me to even think about forgiving someone, that person needs to accept responsibility for what they've done. Not just to me, either. They need to tell everyone that's involved, and take what repercussions come with that. Neither have ever told me parents. My mother understands what happened and knows that I refuse to talk to either of them, and that I have no love for them. Indeed, she knows that I hold a deep loathing towards them. My father will not believe that it happened unless he hears it from the horses mouth. They refuse to do this. At one point, 15 years ago, when I told my brother what was needed, at this point, telling my father, his response was "what about me?". That was the last time I spoke to him.

For me, this is a vital step, because it shows me that they're willing to take responsibility. But, in the end, what is it to forgive someone? Honestly, I don't know. I have such a deeply seated pain, hatred and sadness, a physical and mental inability to let go of those thing, that I can't imagine what it would mean to forgive. What does it feel like, and why is it necessary? So, what, to you, is forgiveness?

I have recently had a terrifying near death experience which I have had to seek therapy for. Prior to this experience I had an ideal or concept of a higher power or god which was taught to me from attending alcoholics anonymous meetings (recovered alcoholic) This nde has stripped me of that belief and made me have my own personal realisation that God simply does not exist. During this experience I prayed and felt nothing, total disconnection. Now that I have this new view that there simply is no god I find myself fearful about life. Like in naked so to speak. Nothing to protect me. Has anyone here gone from being a believer in a higher power or god to an atheist and had these issues and been able to overcome it?

Hi everyone!

I’ve recently started attending a Pentecostal church, and I’m really enjoying the experience. The atmosphere is incredibly uplifting, with vibrant music that fills the space and creates a sense of joy and energy for me. I’ve found that the worship style really resonates with me. I’ve also had the chance to meet some wonderful people who share similar interests and values, and it’s been great to connect with them. I can't picture myself leaving. I absolutely love it!

The preaching has been particularly impactful for me. I appreciate the way the sermons often address real-life issues and provide practical guidance. The messages are delivered with such passion and conviction, making it easy to feel inspired and motivated to grow spiritually.

I’m curious about others’ experiences with church, as I know there are so many different denominations and traditions out there. Have any of you ever attended a church? If so, what denomination did you go to, and what was your experience like? Did you enjoy your time there? What aspects did you find appealing or unappealing? I’d love to hear about the different forms of worship, community activities, or events that stood out to you.

If you stopped attending church, I’m interested in understanding what led you to that decision. Was it a desire for a different community, or perhaps a negative experience? I think hearing about these journeys can offer valuable perspectives on faith and community.

Whether your experiences have been positive, challenging, or somewhere in between, I believe sharing our stories can help us all grow and find common ground in our spiritual journeys. So, please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences; I’m eager to learn from you!

This is a long one. But maybe an important one for people undecided.

I’d like to begin with my backstory. I grew up in South Carolina surrounded by Christianity, particularly southern baptists christianity. Southern baptists are very good at getting you to drink the fool aid cool aid through inconspicuous means. Over time I developed a sense of what god could be and I wasn’t adverse to it. Everyone at church was friendly, I made friends in my neighborhood who I played with often. And by this point in my childhood the indoctrination had already done its work, I presupposed god in all aspects of my life. I woke up everyday believing he existed.

At about 8 years old things began to change. People at church put more pressure on to have a strict life of christian morals and ethics. That sin was bad. It was unfamiliar to me but it was too late. At 9 the full might of the wrath of god was made clear to me, I was a disgusting little sinner, no longer an innocent child. I was destined for damnation and hell, I was no longer jesus’s little friend. And there was nothing I could do as the newborn degenerate in the eyes of god, to try and make something of my life without him. I had two choices. Conform and have heaven, or live an honest life without Christ and have hell, forever. Both of these options were disgusting and terrifying to a child. I could either be stuck at gods feet forever subservient and maybe not even be myself anymore, or suffer an eternity of torture and anguish.

As the years passed and the hooks dug deeper I tried to reject it all. I was angry. But I lost the battle quickly and conceded that I had no choice but to defend my beliefs out of fear and I had to hope god would understand.

At the beginning of college about 4 years ago, I finally got access to the full brunt of the vast information network of the world. Everything changed and all these emotions resurged and I felt like maybe I had a chance to get answers. I began to look into what the world had to offer. I saw that there were many religions, that believed different things. The more I looked at them the more shattered my consciousness became. I decided I had to face the dragon of revelation. For the first time in my life I faced the fear of reading the Bible cover to cover.

I was disgusted….. I saw death, the slaughter of the Amalekites and canaanites. Slavery, justified. Not only how to acquire them but how to make slaves of your own people. I saw women be worth “somewhere between a house and a horse”, the selling of daughters and the raping of women and the consequence 50 shilling. The acquisition of sex slaves forced to marry, or be stoned to death if not a virgin. The dashing of babies on rocks if born from heathens. I read the destruction of tribes with god smiling at death. That he is a jealous god ready to enact vengeance. A god that relishes sacrifice and power. A god, that upon the rediscovery of the most precious laws known to man, killed all that saw them and all that inhabited the area for miles. A god that allowed 42 children to be mauled to death by bears. At least once he killed you in the old testament you were dead.

I studied the historicity of the Bible and became enthralled with Bart ehrman and other various biblical scholars. Learning that hell developed over time was crippling to me. I had been lied to for so long. I saw through study how dualism came from Zoroastrianism and other cultures subsumed by Jewish philosophy. I learned that plato created the idea of the immortal soul, and I saw its implementation into the religion. I saw the apocalypse of Peter written based off surrounding religions and a human made concept, torture, I learned that torture is something that humans do, we made the rules of torture and implemented them. I learned about how many churches decided on the anonymous gospels and made a canon and rejected others. That Augustine of hippo finalized the canon and added ideas from the divine comedy and Dante’s informing inspired by the apocalypse of Peter. My world was shattered.

But this was not the end. I learned about ethics and morality and how we make our own morals. It’s not from god. That over hundreds of thousands of years we created a social contract conducive to survival and wellbeing, and we created an intricate system over time of good and bad actions that can be flexible but also necessary. That we can take basic ideas such as

1.) life is preferred to death 2.) health is preferable to sickness 3.) happiness is preferable to sadness

We can take simple ideas like these and create a flexible system of morality that can be used to create cultures. This allowed me to discover why there are so many denominations of Christianity. Because there are fundamental ideas that we hold that contend with ideas in Christianity and people decide not to believe them, it’s “cherrypicking”. I also compared religions. Why is the Hindu moral system better than the christian one, why is the Shinto system better than the Buddhist one, why is Islam better than the Sikh system, etc…… it turns out all of these were developed based off of ideas we already had before the religion was created. Morality predates religion.

I also learned that free will is a fickle thing. And that individual decision making seems to be debatable. But outside of ourselves nothing is willed by us. We don’t decide our parents or where we are born (but our birthplace decides our religion and culture). We don’t decide if we’re born in an area with clean water or not. Or if there will be plenty of food and resources.

I am not convinced the christian god or any god exists. And I await the day that evidence is presented. But I’m not counting on it. I hope more people begin to wake up. I hope more people see the destruction and savagery that religion brings with it. Whether it be in the background pulling strings or on the forefront of war. Eventually it needs to fade away, the abrahamic religions most of all. We can already see the benefits of secular society in Europe. We see that life flourishes and people are happier and more prosperous. There are more opportunities for people to find what they enjoy in life without economic distress or the prospect of theocracy in the near future. A theocracy that actively challenges bodily autonomy and what information should be in the science, history, and ethics classroom. I will be at the door to stop them. I believe in people and I hope that secularism will win. And once the religious extreme sizzle out, the world will be a better place.

I feel like most answers for turning atheist or very similar, but what are some unique or suprising reasons you’ve seen someone turn to atheism

If there was a way to convince you life could not have arisen on its own from naturalistic processes what would you do ?

I know most of you will say you will wait for science to figure it out, but I'm asking hypothetically if it was demonstrated that it was impossible what would you think?

In my debates with atheists my strategy has been to show how incredibly unlikely abiogenesis is because to me if that is eliminated as an option where else do you go besides theism/deism?

I have been making regular posts here just to get some ideas out and explore the community. I am agnostic by definition as most people here wouldn’t count me as an atheist based on what I have gathered. I am revisiting some ideas to see if other people chime in.

For those that were Christian or another religion. How did you get over the last hump? How did you emotionally reconstruct yourself so that your perspective didn’t begin with the presupposition that god exists. I still have this. I don’t know if I want to get rid of it. I’m very interested in the truth and I am incredibly frustrated that I am right at the precipice and there is no answer. Maybe I’m just dunner Krugering myself. But I feel like there’s only speculation at the end and I’m hitting that point with ontology, Soteriology, and historicity. I would love to learn more but I’m running into a problem where having credible sources is an issue cause the farther back in history you go the more speculative it is.

Do you have any recommendations on content that I can digest