This is a long one. But maybe an important one for people undecided.

I’d like to begin with my backstory. I grew up in South Carolina surrounded by Christianity, particularly southern baptists christianity. Southern baptists are very good at getting you to drink the fool aid cool aid through inconspicuous means. Over time I developed a sense of what god could be and I wasn’t adverse to it. Everyone at church was friendly, I made friends in my neighborhood who I played with often. And by this point in my childhood the indoctrination had already done its work, I presupposed god in all aspects of my life. I woke up everyday believing he existed.

At about 8 years old things began to change. People at church put more pressure on to have a strict life of christian morals and ethics. That sin was bad. It was unfamiliar to me but it was too late. At 9 the full might of the wrath of god was made clear to me, I was a disgusting little sinner, no longer an innocent child. I was destined for damnation and hell, I was no longer jesus’s little friend. And there was nothing I could do as the newborn degenerate in the eyes of god, to try and make something of my life without him. I had two choices. Conform and have heaven, or live an honest life without Christ and have hell, forever. Both of these options were disgusting and terrifying to a child. I could either be stuck at gods feet forever subservient and maybe not even be myself anymore, or suffer an eternity of torture and anguish.

As the years passed and the hooks dug deeper I tried to reject it all. I was angry. But I lost the battle quickly and conceded that I had no choice but to defend my beliefs out of fear and I had to hope god would understand.

At the beginning of college about 4 years ago, I finally got access to the full brunt of the vast information network of the world. Everything changed and all these emotions resurged and I felt like maybe I had a chance to get answers. I began to look into what the world had to offer. I saw that there were many religions, that believed different things. The more I looked at them the more shattered my consciousness became. I decided I had to face the dragon of revelation. For the first time in my life I faced the fear of reading the Bible cover to cover.

I was disgusted….. I saw death, the slaughter of the Amalekites and canaanites. Slavery, justified. Not only how to acquire them but how to make slaves of your own people. I saw women be worth “somewhere between a house and a horse”, the selling of daughters and the raping of women and the consequence 50 shilling. The acquisition of sex slaves forced to marry, or be stoned to death if not a virgin. The dashing of babies on rocks if born from heathens. I read the destruction of tribes with god smiling at death. That he is a jealous god ready to enact vengeance. A god that relishes sacrifice and power. A god, that upon the rediscovery of the most precious laws known to man, killed all that saw them and all that inhabited the area for miles. A god that allowed 42 children to be mauled to death by bears. At least once he killed you in the old testament you were dead.

I studied the historicity of the Bible and became enthralled with Bart ehrman and other various biblical scholars. Learning that hell developed over time was crippling to me. I had been lied to for so long. I saw through study how dualism came from Zoroastrianism and other cultures subsumed by Jewish philosophy. I learned that plato created the idea of the immortal soul, and I saw its implementation into the religion. I saw the apocalypse of Peter written based off surrounding religions and a human made concept, torture, I learned that torture is something that humans do, we made the rules of torture and implemented them. I learned about how many churches decided on the anonymous gospels and made a canon and rejected others. That Augustine of hippo finalized the canon and added ideas from the divine comedy and Dante’s informing inspired by the apocalypse of Peter. My world was shattered.

But this was not the end. I learned about ethics and morality and how we make our own morals. It’s not from god. That over hundreds of thousands of years we created a social contract conducive to survival and wellbeing, and we created an intricate system over time of good and bad actions that can be flexible but also necessary. That we can take basic ideas such as

1.) life is preferred to death 2.) health is preferable to sickness 3.) happiness is preferable to sadness

We can take simple ideas like these and create a flexible system of morality that can be used to create cultures. This allowed me to discover why there are so many denominations of Christianity. Because there are fundamental ideas that we hold that contend with ideas in Christianity and people decide not to believe them, it’s “cherrypicking”. I also compared religions. Why is the Hindu moral system better than the christian one, why is the Shinto system better than the Buddhist one, why is Islam better than the Sikh system, etc…… it turns out all of these were developed based off of ideas we already had before the religion was created. Morality predates religion.

I also learned that free will is a fickle thing. And that individual decision making seems to be debatable. But outside of ourselves nothing is willed by us. We don’t decide our parents or where we are born (but our birthplace decides our religion and culture). We don’t decide if we’re born in an area with clean water or not. Or if there will be plenty of food and resources.

I am not convinced the christian god or any god exists. And I await the day that evidence is presented. But I’m not counting on it. I hope more people begin to wake up. I hope more people see the destruction and savagery that religion brings with it. Whether it be in the background pulling strings or on the forefront of war. Eventually it needs to fade away, the abrahamic religions most of all. We can already see the benefits of secular society in Europe. We see that life flourishes and people are happier and more prosperous. There are more opportunities for people to find what they enjoy in life without economic distress or the prospect of theocracy in the near future. A theocracy that actively challenges bodily autonomy and what information should be in the science, history, and ethics classroom. I will be at the door to stop them. I believe in people and I hope that secularism will win. And once the religious extreme sizzle out, the world will be a better place.

I feel like most answers for turning atheist or very similar, but what are some unique or suprising reasons you’ve seen someone turn to atheism

If there was a way to convince you life could not have arisen on its own from naturalistic processes what would you do ?

I know most of you will say you will wait for science to figure it out, but I'm asking hypothetically if it was demonstrated that it was impossible what would you think?

In my debates with atheists my strategy has been to show how incredibly unlikely abiogenesis is because to me if that is eliminated as an option where else do you go besides theism/deism?

I have been making regular posts here just to get some ideas out and explore the community. I am agnostic by definition as most people here wouldn’t count me as an atheist based on what I have gathered. I am revisiting some ideas to see if other people chime in.

For those that were Christian or another religion. How did you get over the last hump? How did you emotionally reconstruct yourself so that your perspective didn’t begin with the presupposition that god exists. I still have this. I don’t know if I want to get rid of it. I’m very interested in the truth and I am incredibly frustrated that I am right at the precipice and there is no answer. Maybe I’m just dunner Krugering myself. But I feel like there’s only speculation at the end and I’m hitting that point with ontology, Soteriology, and historicity. I would love to learn more but I’m running into a problem where having credible sources is an issue cause the farther back in history you go the more speculative it is.

Do you have any recommendations on content that I can digest

I have said, a few times, that there are times I could believe again. Part of that is a sense of community and belonging. I know that sounds weird, especially when you consider that I'm gay, but there's a few reasons I left Catholicism, too.

The thing is, I also suffer with chronic PTSD, anxiety, panic and dissociation disorders and a list of other mental health issues. I am a huge proponent of suicide prevention hotlines and the like, but they don't really do anything for me. I feel so lost on the daily, if not hourly. I barely work, and when I'm not working I'm either in my room or playing a game, alone. I feel like the end of my parents' lives will be the end of reasons I have left to stay around here, and I almost welcome it, because there aren't really any communities that I feel a part of anymore.

So, that's why I'm here. What are some options I have for community that can help me? Something secular or atheistic that just provides a sense of belonging, that provide a sense of hope?

I have seen recently, the feelings about the world are not good. I am making a post to say… it will pass and it will be ok. As I drive down the highway on the way to a dinner I am not absolutely enthusiastic about, I look at the foliage to the sides of the road. The sun setting down showing a beautiful gold green on the trees. I couldn’t help think to myself. Climate change will probably do away with much of the beauty at some point. Religion will poison the morals and systems we have tried so hard to create. In hopes of a better world. And I decided that I have to force myself to enforce some hope of the world. That the secular few of us will be heard, that we will eventually join the EU and the UK in a greater secular world. One worth having children in. I hope that even if climate change cannot be mitigated (and at this point it’s a very slim chance) that technology will give us the tools to reverse and recover some of the world. There are many putting their lives on the line to make sure as much preservation as possible is achieved. I hope that what little space exploration we can attempt that we will attempt and that we will continue to wonder at the cosmos. And I just want to say. Regardless of what happens in the world around us. There are those of us that will continue to be a force for wonderful things.

I hope that everyone is taking care of their mental health. Take a break from the news, you already know who you will vote for, just turn off the rest, you don’t need it in your head. It’s ok to not be inundated by political information. Go sit in the sun for a minute and just breathe. These problems will pass.

If you’re struggling please seek some help. I am always open to conversation and I have many programs to refer people too. Sometimes it’s just nice to hear “it’s going to be ok, and you are appreciated” and I know this is through text language but it is sincere when i say it.

I always dust myself up listening to online videos of Christians, hindus Or Muslims reading their views on science Or evolution or big bang. All scientifically ignorant people telling lies about science to convince their brainwashed herd. It really occurred to me that i gotta stop caring but I've never been able to, can you please give me a way to stop caring about people being proselytized Or convinced through lies?

I have found conflicting results everywhere I look. Some studies say that 30% of the USA are now nones. And this number is growing. Some fringe studies show this number is higher. Churches are closing faster than they can be built and many are being demolished. Church attendance is the lowest it’s been in an incredibly long time. Information is at the tip of our fingers, especially for younger generations. Some studies say the growth of nones has flatlined and conservative religious pushes will cause people to return to Christianity. That the slow integration of state legislation will slowly reintroduce religion in schools and work. What have you found in your everyday life? Do you see people finally embracing a secular western world? Or do you see it reverting?

I hope everyone is having a nice evening and I sincerely hope that a secular west and a secular world is not far off

I've never been particularly religious, I was lucky enough to grow up with a non religious family and so avoided the normal de-conversion trauma that people are unlucky enough to go through. But when it came time to confront some of the more philosophical issues about life in the past I turned to other atheist groups because I felt it's where I'd find the most common ground. The answers I got were underwhelming and often seemed more focused on getting back at religion then helping people who were trying to find their place in the world without religion. In the end it ended up doing me a lot more mental harm than good and I was wondering if anyone has had any other similar experiences in the past?

When I look at non-religious parts of the US and most of Europe, the low birthrates mean that a lot of these atheists will not have offspring to survive their ideas. Do secular socities only last a couple of generations before they die out? And why don't more atheists reproduce? Is it because children will get in the way of their enjoying the only one lifetime they have to live?

Hello everyone. This is just a fun question for those that like to decorate for the holidays. This year will be my first “non Christian” holiday celebration as an atheist. I decided to get a tree and decorate it based on traditional saturnalia themes since that’s where the ideas behind Christmas originated. I will do similar with Halloween and thanksgiving

What are some fun ways you guys decorate or celebrate the holidays in a non religious way? Do you still follow the traditions? Did you entirely drop them? Or do you decorated as an homage to the origins of the celebration like I am going to do?

This also doesn’t have to be just Christmas. This can be any celebration you have adopted or retrofitted. I’m interested to hear how others have adapted their lives.

Hey all. I'm a seminary student and looking to interview a non-believer for a class in regards to the topic of worldview. Not looking to debate or convince anyone but simply to listen to someone share their worldview and answer worldview questions such as: what is a human? what happens after death? how do we know right from wrong? what is the meaning of human existence and human history? etc. Comment if you'd be willing to share your worldview with me sometime this week! Thanks!

Atheists, like anyone else, can commit logical fallacies in their reasoning or arguments. Logical fallacies are not unique to any particular worldview but are mistakes in reasoning that anyone can make. Below are some common logical fallacies that atheists might fall into when discussing religion or belief in God. It's important to note that not all atheists commit these fallacies, but they can sometimes occur in debates or discussions on the topic.

1. Strawman Fallacy

Definition: Misrepresenting an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack.

Example: An atheist might oversimplify religious belief by saying, "Believers think there's an old man in the sky controlling everything," when many theistic views of God are far more complex and nuanced. This misrepresentation makes it easier to criticize religious belief but doesn't engage with the actual arguments presented by believers.

2. Appeal to Authority (When Misused)

Definition: Using an authority figure’s opinion as evidence in an area outside their expertise, or assuming that because an authority believes something, it must be true.

Example: An atheist might argue, "Most scientists are atheists, therefore atheism must be true." While it's true that many scientists are atheists, the belief system of a person, even an expert, is not proof of its correctness unless it is supported by valid evidence or logical reasoning.

3. Ad Hominem

Definition: Attacking the person making the argument rather than addressing the argument itself.

Example: Dismissing a religious person's argument by attacking their character: "Only ignorant people believe in God," without engaging with the actual points made by the believer. This attacks the person rather than the argument and doesn't prove or disprove the existence of God.

4. Hasty Generalization

Definition: Drawing a broad conclusion from a small or unrepresentative sample.

Example: "All religious people are irrational because I know a few religious people who deny evolution." This fallacy occurs when atheists generalize the behavior or beliefs of a few individuals to an entire group without sufficient evidence.

5. Equivocation

Definition: Using ambiguous language to mislead or misrepresent an argument.

Example: An atheist might say, "Religion is just a myth," using the word "myth" to imply falsehood, when "myth" can also mean a symbolic story that conveys deep truths, whether or not it is historically factual. This ambiguity avoids addressing the actual meaning and significance of religious belief.

6. Appeal to Ridicule

Definition: Presenting an opponent's argument in a way that makes it appear absurd or laughable without properly addressing its substance.

Example: "Believing in God is like believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy." This analogy is designed to make belief in God appear childish, but it doesn't address the philosophical or theological arguments for God's existence, which are far more complex.

7. Argument from Ignorance (Argumentum ad Ignorantiam)

Definition: Assuming something is true or false because it hasn't been proven otherwise.

Example: "There's no evidence for God, therefore God does not exist." This is a fallacy because the lack of evidence does not necessarily prove non-existence; it simply indicates that belief in God may lack empirical support. Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, especially in metaphysical matters.

8. False Dichotomy (Either/Or Fallacy)

Definition: Presenting two opposing options as the only possibilities, when in fact other possibilities exist.

Example: "Either you believe in science, or you believe in religion." This is a false dichotomy because many people believe in both science and religion, seeing them as complementary rather than mutually exclusive.

9. Begging the Question (Circular Reasoning)

Definition: Assuming the conclusion in the premise without providing evidence for it.

Example: "There is no God because the supernatural does not exist." This assumes that the supernatural does not exist as a premise to argue that God does not exist, without proving the initial claim.

10. No True Scotsman

Definition: Dismissing counterexamples to a generalization by claiming they don’t represent the "true" version of something.

Example: "No true rational person would believe in God." When confronted with highly intelligent theists (e.g., scientists or philosophers), this response dismisses them as exceptions or not "truly rational," without addressing their arguments or perspectives.

11. Genetic Fallacy

Definition: Judging something as true or false based on its origin rather than its merit.

Example: "People believe in God because they were raised to believe in God, so their beliefs are invalid." This fallacy focuses on the origin of the belief (upbringing) rather than evaluating the actual arguments for or against God's existence.

12. Slippery Slope

Definition: Suggesting that a minor action will lead to severe consequences without sufficient evidence.

Example: "If we let religious beliefs influence anything in society, we’ll end up in a theocratic dictatorship." This argument assumes a dramatic escalation without demonstrating that such a progression is inevitable.

13. Appeal to Popularity (Ad Populum)

Definition: Arguing that a belief must be true because many people accept it.

Example: "Atheism is becoming more common, so it must be the right viewpoint." The popularity of a belief does not determine its truth. Just because many people accept atheism does not make it logically or philosophically correct.

Conclusion

Logical fallacies can be committed by people on any side of a debate, including atheists, theists, or others. These errors in reasoning don’t necessarily reflect the truth of atheism or theism but can undermine an individual’s argument. Identifying and avoiding fallacies is essential for constructive dialogue on complex topics like the existence of God and religion. The goal should be to engage in reasoned, respectful discussions that focus on evidence, logic, and fair interpretations of each other's views.

I am genuinely trying to debate politely and/or ask what kind respectfully. But on those subs I constantly see people just rude as hell to each other. There are a few things that I really disagree with in the Christian worldview and I want to know how they justify it and I never get any good answers. It’s incredibly frustrating when you just get presuppositional arguments all the time. And no real answers.

DISCLAIMER: r/askanathiest is great and usually very productive in giving answers. And so is r/exchristian (their rules are very tight though). I will continue to post on askanatheist. But I am also interested in how these Christian’s justify an overwhelmingly gross amount of horror in the Bible.

My parents are nonreligious, and they put me in a Christian school because my other school was not good in terms of academic performance and discipline. For the most part, I am Christian. But my teacher stated the point of parents putting their kids in Christian schools even if their not Christian, and I’m curious on a secular point on this, and what an atheist would do?

The idea that Islam has gone from a secular enterprise to a religion based area that highly subjugates bodily autonomy in a fairly short amount of time is terrifying. Living in the US I see how hard the extreme right is allowing an incredible amount of influence from the church. I have no issues with individuals. But as a group the church is fairly disgusting as an entity driving law.

I would love your thoughts if you have seen this kind of situation before, or just your thoughts in general.

I tend to hang around these subs not because I feel a big connection to atheist identity, but rather because I find these discussions generally interesting. I’m also pretty big into philosophy, although I don’t understand it as well as I’d like I do my best to talk about it at a level I do understand.

It seems to me people in atheist circles have pretty extreme positions on philosophy. On my last post I had one person who talked with me about Aquinas pretty in depth, some people who were talking about philosophy in general (shout out to the guy who mentioned moral constructivism, a real one) and then a couple people who seemed to view the trade with complete disdain, with one person comparing philosophers to religious apologists 1:1.

My question is, what is your opinion on the field, and why?

Not necessarily formal arguments for God’s existence, I think those require at least some effort to dismantle (and those that don’t usually have a long history related to their dismantling, see Ontological Argument) although I’d accept those too. I mean like the bottom of the barrel stuff. The watchmaker argument, stuff that just sounds intuitively terrible on a second pass.

Maybe I'm assuming too much but it just seems the concept of Apocalypse might be even more impactful on culture than notions of any particular deity; even when secular culture has largely discarded religion, the general sense that the world might end during ones lifetime, is never fully off the table, no despite never having happened yet.

I ask this question here, because this fixed understanding of the future is is kind of religious and it impacts everything from consumer habits to politics.

Why/How is apocalypse such a stubborn figment of our collective imaginations?

Edit: AND what are the implications of this?

Life started on earth about 3.8 - 4.3 billion years ago

One Kalpa is about 4.32 billion years (one day for Brahma) this is mentioned in Vishnu Puran

The Vishnu Puran is more than 1500 years old and Kalpa is also indirectly mentioned in Yajurveda which is around 3500 - 2500 years ago. Yajurveda mentions the "the day of Brahma" but the length is only mentioned in the Puranas

This level of accuracy in the numbers are quite impressive for the technology they had at the time. How do you think they would have been able to calculate this?

I understand this could be a coincidence but I also don't want to be ignorant.

I want to learn more about other things that ancient text that are quite close to being accurate and then I want to examine all of them individually. Please help me in that regard

I know a lot of you will find this annoying, and reject all of this as just coincidence and that is what I also think right now but I also want to be well informed. So, please help me that regard.

Source

https://news.uchicago.edu/explainer/origin-life-earth-explained

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpa_(time)

Would a former Christian theist explain what exactly “the chosen people” means in the context of Christian theology, and what happens in the end to Jews (the chosen ones)?

When I hear it said, it sounds like a warm fuzzy reference but I have heard a not so warm fuzzy version a long time ago and can’t remember the details.

Thank you for your time. I am a life long atheist so my deep knowledge of scripture is lacking.

I know there are several things that are quite overplayed by now, like the Kalam, which is basically the most brought-up argument for the existence of God at this point, and the free will theodicy, which is the most brought-up counter-objection to the Problem of Evil, the most brought-up argument against the existence of God.

But what is really starting to frustrate me is when I bring up an argument for the existence of God that I haven't heard that often, and atheists are like "Really? This sh*t again?"

So I'm asking out of pure curiosity. How much apologetics have you really heard?

As a disclaimer I was a theist. I am currently in the “I don’t know” phase but I am finding lacking evidence of anything that could be metaphysical.

I really enjoy reading and I have already read “heaven and hell” and “misquoting Jesus” by Bart ehrman. “Godless” and “god” by Dan barker (great guy). “God is not great” by Christopher hitchens. “Waking up” and “the moral landscape” by Sam harris. “The demon haunted world” by Carl Sagan. And “beyond good and evil” by friedrich nietzsche.

I am skeptical of “the god delusion” because I hear that its claims in the book are bit mediocre. If this is incorrect I would love to read it. But this is why I haven’t. People have often recommended omitting this book and just reading Dawkins books on biology.

I am an Atheist who is not sure what to label myself. I mean, I am unsure about the existence of a creator god, but yeah, I believe that its most probable for it to not exist. I also believe that even if there is a creator god, it is similar to those described by secular/atheistic philosophies like deism. Note that I am also 100 per cent sure that the Theist deity, Theist creator god and personal god don't exist.

I used to label myself as a 'Radical Atheist' but yeah, slowly it became too vague for me as I am neither as Implicit as the Agnostic Atheists, nor as explicit as the Gnostic Atheists.

Now, I just label myself as an 'Atheist' but I need a better label.

Pls help me.

I’m agnostic and a personal support worker, I work at a retirement home and recently learned a client of mine who I helped for almost a year passed away, she was very Christian but kind (was over 100 and still read her bible and blessed me after her shower). I walked by her room and even though I’m not sure and it’s probably a very low chance the afterlife is Christian, I prayed for her god to take care of her. I was wondering if atheist would do the same or since there’s no afterlife like that there wouldn’t be a point. (Not trying to be rude genuinely curious)

What books, especially that you love, would you recommend to religious people who are interested in learning more about Atheism, Agnosticism, etc, or your particular beliefs? Just for educational purposes and can be on any sub-genre or focus on any particular religious group. I know that the books in the footnotes of books religious authors write may not fully represent the broader viewpoints that Atheists, Agnostics, and Secularist in general hold to, so let me know your fav so I can maybe find it at the library or something to read it.

I was recommended a book on trans-humanism by a random Agnostic I met which was cool and it’s a subject I’ve never thought about despite intersecting with other topics I’m interested in or studying in college.

Thanks in advance and have a great night/day!

Edit: Thank you so much for the book recommendation! :D I found most of them at my library.

My initial reason for beginning to post on multiple threads was because of an initial fear I have that lingers. I have an irrational fear of hell that keeps me from getting over the hump. As well as the feelings of internalized guilt and sin. It’s a weird place as, I cannot reconcile with the religion I was born into. The god I believed in is evil. The stance of god on women, slavery, and the general bloodthirsty slaughter he endorses is grotesque and demonstrable.

As an atheist or agnostic. (Only using this phrasing cause this will be posted on multiple subs). How did you overcome these feelings? If you’re an ex Christian how did you let go of these feelings? If you were always atheist, what is something interesting about this topic that you know that could help people overcome this fear.

A little bit about the purpose of this thread. This isn’t necessarily about me. I have already done a good bit of research on hell and it’s origins as well as read the Bible cover to cover and watch a LOT of media concerning this topic and I have for the most part decided it’s I want absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. I see it as harmful, and the political side of Christianity is destructive. I still have fear even though I have a lot of the information I need to make a rational decision. It just proves that I was indoctrinated and I have some issues to work through. But I hope sincerely that this thread can be a place for people struggling to gather information and connect with people.

To clarify, why is it taken offensively when someone who believes in god says something similar to, “praying for you”, or “keeping you in prayer”?

I understand that not everyone is religious; I'm not the most devout nor will I ever claim to be. However, I've only ever seen it as a sentiment to otherwise say, “I have you in mind and have faith that you will see better days”. Never understood why this might be received negatively.

Edit: Okay I see now how the sentiment can be mistrued; so what are some other ways to offer friendliness and compassion, that wouldn't make you think someone is being disingenuous and would actually help soothe you to a degree?

Edit 2: thank you to everyone that commented giving their perspective on the issue. i learned something new today and greatly appreciate those that kept it civil and had patience to help explain this concept to me. (as you can probably tell, im fairly young.) i don’t lack life experience so much as “religious topic experience” and have always been confused by this until now.

Here is an article from The Guardian that covered the story.

Was the withdrawal of the honor justified?

Are there some situations where empirical evidence, inquiry, and scientific honesty must take a backseat as to not offend vulnerable people?

I came to this thread about a week and a half ago. I introduced myself as someone deconstructing, this is still somewhat true only because there is still a looming fear of religious ideas, more recently thought there is something that is more pressing, even more than the problem of hell.

Christian driven politics and legislation.

It is some of the most disgusting and disturbing behavior I have seen. Most if not all of these ideas are completely unconstitutional but are blatantly religious in nature. Like mandating bibles and the 10 commandments in schools, to taking away bodily autonomy, to programs like project 2025. These kind of politics probably want to make all of us crawl in a hole and disappear.

As I am in South Carolina there’s a slim chance of me seeing pushback against these ideas. Do any of you see some hope on the horizon outside of the Bible Belt? Is anyone’s state government fighting against these ideas?