Going over the application for the search warrant in the Dedmons property, I’ve noticed how peculiar some of the phrasings were, and I’d like to share my perspective.

THE PURPOSE OF A SEARCH WARRANT APPLICATION

First, the main purpose of an application like this is always to build a strong probable cause argument to sway a judge into granting your request and, hopefully, gathering additional evidence in the suspect’s location as a result. If you’re successful in solving the case (i.e. the remains were found in the property), the prosecution might have enough physical or undeniable circunstancial evidence to push for a conviction without relying on “shaky” eyewitness reports – that was most likely the case of the green car tip, which is still unclear when it was reported and for how long investigators sat on it.

HOW THEY ADDRESSED THE GREEN CAR TIP

The search warrant application covers the initial efforts made during those first two-weeks, and it doesn’t describe any attempts to locate this vehicle, so we can safely assume it didn’t come in initially. That’s why, IMO, the introduction of the green car in the application seems purposefully vague: “Asha Degree was seen by drivers walking along North Carolina Highway 18 in Shelby, North Carolina. Asha Degree was seen being pulled into a 1970’s green Lincoln, Thunderbird, or another similar vehicle.”

We know the tip of the drivers came in the next day, but they don’t mention the date in the application – as in: “she was seen by drivers who reported the sightings in the afternoon Feb. 14”. This is a smart move because it allows them to not specify when the other tip was logged in or rediscovered – if it was reported weeks, months or years later, and if it was investigated initially.

If it took them over a decade to receive or pursue this tip, that’s naturally a less reliable lead – and their argument for the search warrant would be weakened. After all, they rely on the green car to connect the two DNA samples and convince the judge they indeed have probable cause to name and further investigate these suspects.

WHY THEY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE GREEN CAR TIP

By presenting both sentences sequentially (Asha was seen by drivers walking down the road, and she was seen being pulled into a car), there’s a logical connection that can be made by the judge without the applicants explicitly stating it for the records. This is what I think was one of their biggest concerns: they must to careful not to make themselves vulnerable to a defense attorney down the road who might claim “everything found in the suspect’s residence must be disregarded because investigators provided false information about the relevance of the green car tip to get their search warrant granted”.

We’ve seen this happen in the Delphi murders case: the defense for Richard Allen petitioned for the incriminating evidence found in his home to be dismissed in court, because the search warrant had two minor inconsistencies with the recorded witnesses’ testimony (something like a wrong date here and the wrong color of a jacket there). So, what does this all mean?

WHY I THINK THEY RELEASED THE GREEN CARD TIP WHEN THEY DID

Personally, I believe they were already narrowing on the Dedmons for quite some time – the hair of the daughter being their most clear piece of evidence found in 2001. They don’t specify when they got each match, but my guess is that the Dedmon daughter sample was identified earlier. It’s possible they got this match before even receiving the green car tip, which was released to the public in 2016 if I’m not mistaken. By then, they were possibly aware of all vehicles owned by the family in 2000, and the green car was the one compatible with this tip.

It the tip wasn't reported proactively, the investigators could have knocked on every door in the area and showed pictures of similar cars and a photo of Asha, and someone was like "Oh, I remember one night I saw a black girl who looked like her being pulled into a vehicle like this one (points to the green car), it was years ago, I didn't think much of it at the time". That's a possibility.

So, by releasing this info to the public, they could get additional statements to move forward with the search warrant application (i.e. a neighbor thinks “oh, the Dedmons own a car similar to this and now that I think about it, I saw the father digging a hole in his backyard a few years back”; or someone who was keeping this secret and struggling to take it to their grave could get scared and come forward before being implicated any further). An additional tip leading to the Dedmons could make all the difference in a solid search warrant.

WHY THE GREEN CAR AND THE DAUGHTER’S DNA WASN’T ENOUGH

Wouldn’t the family owning a green car and their 13-year-old girl’s hair being found in an undershirt inside a bookbag inside a trash bag be enough for a search warrant? There’s two problems with that: first, the credibility of the green car sighting would be more integral for the application to be granted or denied (they would have to convince the judge it was tight); second, and most importantly, they’d have to leave out a HUGE piece of evidence.

I’m talking, of course, about the DNA sample found in the actual trash bag - I’m assuming it was touch DNA, belonging to Underhill. If they have the Dedmon’s daughter DNA (previously identified), they know the other sample can’t be traced back to any of the Dedmons (it doesn’t match the family’s DNA). The DNA in the trash bag is obviously more significant – the 13 y.o.'s hair could have been transferred anywhere and at anytime; the DNA sample of the person who manipulated the actual trash bag is naturally the most important piece of information to close in on a suspect.

Who was this person, not related to Asha Degree or the 13 year old girl? The probable cause search warrant couldn’t pretend this second sample wasn’t discovered; they cannot withhold something like this from the judge.

SO, HERE’S WHAT I THINK HAPPENED:

They either received a tip initially deemed unreliable about a green car or discovered it through old-school legwork after they got a match with the Dedmon daughter DNA - all prior 2016. They strategically released the green car tip to the public as a result, hoping it could lead to an additional reason to upgrade the Dedmons to “suspects status”. They only got a match on Underhill’s DNA recently, and based on his physical condition at the time and the link they were able to establish with the Dedmons, they finally had enough to apply for a probable cause search warrant.

It's possible that the green car sighting is not significant - it only served this stage of the investigation, for this specific purpose, and the definitive narrative (it we're lucky enough to see this case go to trial) could have nothing to do with a green car at all. I believe investigators are doing exactly what they should do and covering the most promising investigative avenue in a case that had virtually none. I'm just saying we shouldn't see this version of the events as set in stone.

What was going on within Ashas home to where she felt she needed to leave? I'm in my 40's and I wouldn't dare leave my house walking that time of night. Was it abuse or something else. A child her age is just not going to leave her home for nothing.

I know with no more recent updates since September it’s difficult to say, but how many people are leaning towards the hit in run theory in this case? I really hope we’ll get more information in the future. Degree family deserves closure

If DNA was found linking Asha's backpack and/or its contents to one or more members of the Dedmon family, why were no arrests made?

Do we know if they were interviewed after the search warrants were served?

Besides the time that passed.

Just saw that the true crime podcast “Cleveland County Valentine” got featured in a Fielding Graduate University article. The podcast interviewed their Professor Dr. Brian Cutler for Episode 4, where he breaks down eyewitness testimony and memory reliability in cold cases. Pretty interesting to see an academic institution highlighting a true crime podcast.

If anyone’s interested:

https://www.fielding.edu/dr-brian-cutler-was-a-special-guest-on-the-true-crime-podcast-cleveland-county-valentine/

Apple Episode 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cleveland-county-valentine/id1767067608?i=1000678129645

Spotify Episode 4: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nZHA6eZXG4qZlWTvGlDR3

https://youtu.be/0kpbK1jGHFU?si=00TuF5jy02N6rO2r

In the case that LE found nothing at all that relates to Asha as part of their search warrant executions will they state that? Will they put out an update to say nothing was found and so Roy and Connie are no longer suspects/but still are suspects? Or will they remain silent indefinitely till they have something substantial to report?

The news reported back in September that law enforcement stated that Asha was a victim of homicide and her body is concealed. Do we know what proof they have that Asha is dead?

I'm just getting around to reading the search warrant. It tells where many people often keep something related to a crime - a personal effect, newspaper article, photo, etc. It says 'it is probable and likely, personal effects belonging to Asha Degree, along with other forensics and/or trace evidence relevant to this investigation will be located at the residence of 7426 Walnut Drive (the next page says Walnut Wood Drive), Charlotte, North Carolina.' The home of AnnaLee Dedmon, who was 13 in 2000. Do they believe she personally kept something from Asha or does she have something and may not know that she has something? Are the parents listed as suspects because she was a minor at the time - and/or the fact that they, as adults, covered up her crime?

She’s interviewing people who actually knew Asha, the Dedmons and attended the Twelve Oaks Academy school. Any thoughts?

Could it be that they knew all along who the car belonged to, and that the owner was across the street. They did not disclose because they didn’t have enough evidence for a warrant. They also feared that to show their hand would prompt the owner to destroy car/evidence. Instead of disclosing everything they knew to chase an abductor across the state(s). They knew all along where the perpetrators were. They were watching and waiting. That explains the very limited information released.

NCMEC released an image of what they feel the skull found in 2009 may have looked like. People are immediately connecting the similarities to Asha Degree.

Thoughts?

Just started listening to this series after finding out about it on Facebook. This seems like it might be interesting. Streaming on Apple Podcasts & Spotify:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cleveland-county-valentine/id1767067608?i=1000672169459

https://open.spotify.com/show/3nZHA6eZXG4qZlWTvGlDR3

I remember thinking it really strange as a kid that my mom was hyper-aware of stranger danger, but would send me on my own to the spot to catch the school bus.

We were semi rural, in the same region as the Degrees, and from my experience in the 80's & 90's it was perfectly normal to wait outside, sometimes quite far from your house, for the school bus, alone, and in the winter it would still be pitch black outside.

Was Asha bussed or driven by her parents?

I once woke up on a Saturday, in automatic mode, and merrily walked the 1/4 mile down the country road to the main road, in the dark. I stood by myself by the road, with a walkman on, listening to Queen, for twenty minutes before my dumb little brain figured out I had fucked up. I was 12, female, tiny and oblivious.

Since I am typing, I also want to confirm from experience, the New Kids on the Block top is 99.9% a nightgown. The curved hem style ones that were longer than a shirt. I still had one in a drawer until 1997, so, close to the time.

Occam’s Razoring the new evidence: one of the adult Dedmons was grooming Asha, maybe through one of the daughters, and they convinced her to leave home. They agreed on a pickup time and location, somewhere along or just off the highway. This would explain why she kept running from the trucks (because they weren’t the car she was told to watch out for) and also was seen getting into the green car.

Starts about fifty minutes in. He was in his semi, according to him.

https://www.youtube.com/live/d0CO8nx4a_Y?si=ADdFGegPvR2dy4va

What if the Dedmon daughter who's birthday it was the day of Asha's disappearance had snuck out of the house to celebrate it/hang out with people whom her parents didn't approve of, and what if Roy was driving around trying to find her and encountered Asha?

I still think there could be an indirect connection between the Dedmon daughters and Asha via people her older cousins may have been acquainted/hung out with (perhaps someone in their social circles was involved with one of the daughters), and maybe Asha had been lured out of her home under the premise of getting to hang out with the big kids just like she had at the sleepover with her cousins?

The sleepover angle speaks to me of her being comfortable socially with people older than her, especially if she knew them or if a family member like her cousins would be involved. Also, maybe the Turner shed was supposed to be the meetup spot for this, and when whoever was supposed to show up there didn't, Asha left and that's when everything happened.

So, I know that the sleepover that Asha went to the night before her disappearance was with her cousins, but what was the purpose of it? Was it a birthday celebration or just a random get-together? Was it family only, or could older friends of ger cousins have been there at some point during the evening? Have a possible theory related to this that I'm working out and need to check the details...

As I replay the details of this case over and over again in my head, I can’t help but wonder if there is some truth in the suggestion that Asha may have left her home that night due to something deeper going on behind the scenes. As others have said, happy children do not leave their happy homes in the middle of the night for no reason.

One part of the timeline that has always stuck out to me is the sleepover at Asha’s cousin’s (Catina's) house the night before she went missing. We know that at least 12 of Asha’s cousins were there. We know that Catina was 15 while Asha was 9. I have seen it reported that friends of family members were also in attendance that night, but I am not sure whether that assertion has been confirmed. Regardless, I do not believe it is a stretch to assume that Asha’s uncles and other distant relatives may have made an appearance at Catina’s house.

The reason that the sleepover has always stuck out to me is due to the statistics surrounding CSA. In sharing this theory, my intention is not to implicate, disparage or further victimize the Degree family, but to offer another perspective on where Asha’s mind could have been that night. 90% of sexually abused children know their abuser, with 30% being abused by family members and 60% being abused by people known and trusted by family members. If we consider that Catina was 15 and Asha was 9, that means that at least one of the sleepover attendees was in fourth grade, while at least one other was potentially a freshman or sophomore in high school. That is a pretty significant difference in age and does raise the question of the ages of the other attendees that night. If family friends were there, were they all high schoolers? Did they have boyfriends or girlfriends that could have shown up? With at least 12 cousins present and others potentially in attendance, would anyone have noticed if a couple people disappeared for a few minutes? I have seen it reported that Catina and Asha were up late whispering, and that feels really odd when trying to imagine what could be a source of secrecy between a fourth grader and a freshman/sophomore in high school.

The following morning we know that Asha was picked up to go to church with her family. I do not believe it is a stretch to consider that Asha’s nearby relatives (i.e., the sleepover attendees) likely went to the same church as Asha, O’Bryant and their parents. If something had happened to Asha at the sleepover, would it have been especially hard for Asha to see them again in the morning at church? Could that have reinforced the idea that there is no escaping family? If her abuser was trusted by her parents, Asha may have not felt like she could confide in her parents. She might have felt like she would get in trouble for sharing something like that, or that she might not be believed if she were to bring it up to them.

The night Asha left, she walked south toward Shelby on Highway 18. She was last seen near Debbie Turner Upholstery. Further up the road is Shelby Police Department. Could Asha have been walking to the police station to talk to the police? 9 year olds are at the age where they have been repeatedly drilled with “if you need help, call 911!” and “if you’re ever in trouble, go to the police!” Children this age view police officers as heroes who come in and fight off the bad guys. She could have planned to tell LE not to tell her parents (since 9 year olds wouldn’t realize that LE wouldn't keep a report like that confidential) and possibly could have left her home in the middle of the night so that her parents would have no idea that she even wanted to discuss anything with LE.

She would not have known how far a walk like that would take, but may have known that the drive past the police station to her house is only 11 minutes. I also don’t think a 9 year old would realize that a small town police department likely would not be open at 4 a.m. I know I definitely did not know that when I tried to file a police report at 16.

We also know that Asha was a very obedient child and was submissive to authority. She might have seen someone like a police officer who is in a position of power and not felt like she was doing anything wrong by going to speak to them. Venturing out into the unknowns of the night as a young girl does seem like it would be a terrifying endeavor—but if you believed you were walking toward safety, you might not feel like you were in grave danger.

As for the contents of her backpack, we know that LE recovered a change of clothes, her basketball uniform, some pictures of her family and a Dr. Seuss book (among other things). I think it is plausible that Asha could have left for the police station in the clothes she wore to bed, thinking that she would change once the police dropped her off at school. Maybe she brought pictures of her family for the purpose of identifying herself to LE. While we don't know who the Dr. Seuss book came from, I think it’s possible that she could have packed it to return that day at school as it was from her school's library.

This theory does not answer the question of what happened to Asha once she left the Degree home, but I believe the reason she left and what happened to her on Highway 18 are unfortunately unrelated.

It sounds like Shelby was hit by the storm and is slowly recovering, thankfully. I'm curious if folks have thoughts on the impact it might have on the investigation or recovery of Asha?

I’m still fairly new to the case. I have followed on and off for the past year.

Can someone tell me if the area the contractor was clearing and the backpack was found, was it thick and wooded? Also, hidden from public view?

I was just wondering if she could be there?

I know someone saw Dedmon digging a deep hole, but I’m just curious if the area of the backpack be considered. Also, has it ever been searched?

Please forgive me if I am adding this to the wrong section. I am new here. I think I’ve read every theory under the moon. As a girl who grew up being bullied, knowing how vicious children can be… there’s one thing that is glaring me in the face. We know Roy was a real class act… likely showing some degree of that in his parenting and thus passing that to his children. Did the Dedmon daughters know Asha’s cousins? Could asha have been lured out of her home by promise of a sleepover with older kids or some other fun activity? At this age she may have been trying to “prove” herself to an older age group. Did the dedmon daughters have a riff with the older cousins and in an attempt to “get back at them” they lured Asha into some sort of trap? Can someone shed some light on this for me?

This MEGA THREAD is for any comments, theories, thoughts, or information that may not be approved as a stand alone post.

Since this is the space for theories, remember that disagreement is okay as long as it's respectful.

So, share what's on your mind about this case.

So I know that the contractor opening the trash bag was an extremely lucky chain of events. Because after all he is a contractor who probably came across trash dumped all over and never thought to check inside.

So as we are aware he said what he found inside the bag disturbed him but what he saw was never released

So does anyone think that maybe there was something else found in that area before the bag was discovered? I’m thinking that if he hypothetically found something like a makeshift campsite in an area where that’s pretty uncommon then he’d might be more inclined to check the garbage bag.

What do you all think