Looking to get some thoughts from people that feel that procreation is unethical.

From the sub's description, it says that procreation is unethical. Using that as a thesis - given that the result of procreation is a human life, wouldn't that also make the results of procreation unethical as well? How would an unethical act produce a morally good result?

How in this philosophy can you justify living at all? I don't really see how proponents of this viewpoint can morally justify their own existence without jumping through some convenient illogical hoops to justify the consumption of scarce resources on this planet for themselves, and not the yet-to-be born.

Additionally, if the philosophy that procreation is unethical was adopted by the entire world, then humans would die off the planet within 100 years. Of course that wouldn't happen, but is that a hypothetical goal? If so, to what end does that serve?

edit: For the people that may say "I didn't ask to be born", sure, no one did, but you are also choosing to live every day. If existence is unethical, how can you justify it? And if existing is not unethical, how can creating new life be unethical?

No I am not trying to attack women. I am no sexist.

I am tall and I work out. I also earn a good salary. I am quiet and passive.

Being a man, I am wired to desire busty women with a thin waist, and a mild temper. I would assume that women are wired to seek out the tall fit man with a good job. I assume that said “wiring” exists to foster successful procreation.

All that said, I have noted that CF and AN women tend to be far more choosy than those seeking a partner to procreate with.

My brother often points out that well over half the women he dated already had children. He also observed that they had pretty low standards back when they got pregnant.

His current girlfriend is attractive and could have done far better than the two men shd let knock her up. (He children are all grown because she got started at 28 or so).

The stupid spelling and grammar correction often fights me. I have to type AN, because it refuses to allow me to type it out. It does allow me to type “childfree” even though it so often tried to substitute “childcare”.

You think there is someone at Apple who hates our stance?

My mother told me that in India all political parties try their best to buy female votes. They use free money, education, other advantages to get attention of Indian women to get as much votes as possible. My mom gets money from government since she is unemployed. No political party here can survive without votes of females. No one cares about benefitting men here. Young girls also receive free seats in academic universities without scoring enough marks in entrance exam.

I am surprised why US women vote for right wing if they are against women's rights. Is it because abortion topic is usually neglected as it is something one time or two time event and not daily topic? Humans usually care about everyday issues than rare problems.

The original post was about how antinatalists turn into “Hitler” when they see someone in a wheelchair- obviously implying that we are for eugenics.

Well, it just so happens that my father is in a wheelchair due to a genetic disorder that I have a 50% chance of inheriting. I, obviously, did not turn into Hitler when my father ended up in a wheelchair. I love him dearly, but I see how much he is suffering. He’s on ridiculously strong painkillers and on a ridiculous amount of pain medication- yet nothing can ease his pain.

I watch my father’s suffering knowing that, it could, one day, be my suffering.

I guess they don’t actually want to hear first hand accounts of how awful disabilities can be. It’s not a hatred for disabled people that fuels my decision to not have children, it’s empathy. It’s listening to your father cry about how he is losing his independence and how he feels like a burden. I could not, ever, inflict that on another human being.

Life has no meaning, no worth, no value, no point. We exist not because there's some special purpose that needs to be fulfilled. We exist because two people reproduced. As senseless as it sounds. Of course people struggle to find their own meaning in life, because there's none. Animals do what animals do. Humans are animals. Humans reproduce. So do animals. I have a feeling, people feel offended by AN because it debunks what we've been told our whole lives, that life has meaning and it's up to us to find it. That all the pain and suffering that we've been through serve as lessons to be learnt. Not really. It all happens because two people did what animals do. We'd love to think we're above animals, but in fact no logic, no civilisation, no so called meaning, can override 3.7 billion years of evolution. Good news is, I've decided to put an end to 3.7 billion years of pain and suffering by staying childless for the rest of my life. My genes will die with me. It ends with me.

World is not overpopulated. Cities are overpopulated. In terms of people, the planet is almost empty.

The idea that the world is overpopulated is a myth; we actually need more people because we inhabit only 1% of the Earth's land, and more than half of the planet remains unoccupied.

Since the contribution of Fritz Haber and his catalytic synthesis of ammonia there is well known that humans produce more food that we consume, and all the hunger issues around the world are related to logistics, not production. Read this again: WE PRODUCE ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED 1.5 TIMES THE GLOBAL POPULATION. THE PROBLEM ARE LOGISTICS. And this is directly from the mouth of the chair of the UN Committee on Food Security!

It is certain beyond any doubt.Sun will turn into a red giant and destroy the Earth, it will be as though we were never here and life never existed and the universe will continue on until it's inevitable ending.

They do regardless of what you say, u might feel attacked just like the Natalist do when evidence is brought to their face about how it's unethical to have children because you're selfish just like them. you don't want to change your ways for the safety of other beings.

Just like the Natalist You might know bringing the non existent into this life is wrong (the humans anyways.. bias) because of all the harm that could happen them and plus you ain't got their consent

BUTTT when it comes to other animals that aren't humans even though we're all fucking animals it seems to be perfectly okay

You advocate for eating other beings babies because it's natural and because they taste good

Fine

But don't act like you're on some moral high ground because you ain't a Natalist

You just as bad as them. You're still an animal. You didn't rise above your instincts at all

And I can tell just by reading these responses how much of a selfish creature the lots of you are. No different then a Natalist.. defending bringing other beings into this life to be harmed just so they can be your snack when you know you wouldn't wanna be any other beings snack. Sooo.. that's all

I think there’s a correlation between being childfree and not being religious. The bible says to “be fruitful and multiply” and obviously that is total BS.

I’m an atheist antinatalist person and I wanted to see if people on this subreddit are more inclined to have these two aspects in common.

When I grow up, I don't think I'll be having children, mainly because that'd take away my own time to work and do fun things. I don't care if other people have kids, if anything, it's nice, as then there are more people in the world to interact with and share good times with.

The title.

I am married to a foreign spouse now. Almost every American I ever dated had parents that wanted grandchildren so bad they just could not back off for anything. Not one woman whom I dated ever bothered me about reversing the vasectomies I had at 20.

Another question: Why does every woman have to say “mom, dad. I met a guy with a good job, he is tall, he had no kids, and he had a vasectomy!”?

That made for uncomfortable dinner conversations when I met the parents.

It is good to tell them I take the same stance. Why do they need to know my medical history? I often wondered if I was just a “tool” used to piss off parents.

Edit: I am a boomer.

I see a distinction between deontological antinatalists who believe that procreating is unethical because the act of procreating itself is wrong, and consequentialist antinatalists who think that any action that might result in the creation of new sentience down the line is unethical. The former would satisfy their standards simply by not procreating themselves. The latter might additionally stop eating animal products because of the demand created for new animals who suffer. Should such consequentialists stop using platforms that are actively training artificial intelligence, such as Reddit, which will eventually result in intelligent agents who could not only develop sentience, but also an ability to reproduce faster and create more suffering than we can currently imagine? Please discuss.

Contemplating leaving this sub even though I am AN.

I am really turned off by the extremist divide I've been seeing on this sub lately. Personally, I would prefer a sub who is imperfect but is still doing what they can to reduce suffering where they can. I don't know people's life situations, and nobody is entitled to demand this personal information. Although I respect the extremists for going to such measures with their antinatalism actions. Hats off to you, I wish I could.

An example: Veganism is a great tool towards antinatalism, and whoever can employ it, I think, should. However a lot of these vegan extremist antinatalists have very black and white thinking, and often no exceptions are ever allowed. Financial situation? Poverty? Disability? Allergy? Health restrictions? These often do not matter for the vegan extremist.

I don't have issue with those who want to be extreme in their own life. What I have issues with is the extremists who believe it is acceptable to be abusive human beings "for the sake of antinatalism" and shoving it down everybody's throats.

I wish there was a non-extremist antinatalism sub, for those of us who don't take well to the perfectionism, and would rather focus on improvement without attacks.

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An antinatalist would not bring a kid into ANY world (except maybe for a purely hypothetical one with zero suffering). If you think it would be fine to have a kid if only the world was a better place, please make your own sub.

I feel the main reason I'm anti nataliat is because I'm overly sensitive. I can't even watch true crime like most people because it's based on true stories that happened to real people and it's so hurtful and depressing to watch. the average person probably doesn't think like that. I'm an antinataliat not because my life is bad or anything, I understand my life is more comfortable than a lot of people. I'm an antinataliat because I don't think it's fair to bring life here with no consent. I look at the world around me as see hunger, wars, pain, hurt, hate, poverty and my heart bleeds for them. I'm aware the average person does not have my thoughts. So am I too sensitive or do others just lack empathy ?

As in, do you think it's wrong when humans force other humans to be born, but not when they force animals to be born?

I don’t care if I get downvoted to hell on this. I’m getting really frustrated with constant posts in this subreddit dismissing everyone who isn’t human as “not actually suffering” and calling vegans “abusers” for pointing out the fact that nonvegans pay murderers.
This used to be a place I could come to to talk about how insane it is to create a new life in this world purely to exploit them for personal gratification, now it’s become a place where people are shamed for being upset about such things. I wouldn’t be making this post if people were being kind and respectful and encouraging people to make the changes they can to reduce their animal product consumption to reduce overall harm. That is not the case.

So please, can we all just be respectful of other people and if you want to financially support breeding, exploitation, and violence, please go somewhere else, people are so much more likely to engage in a reflective discussion about their diets and animal product consumption when vegans are allowed to state facts and express their opposition.

(this is spoofing an earlier post)

VEGANISM IS THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP IN MLK JRS PHILOSOPHY - CORETTA SCOTT KING

I don’t care if I get downvoted to hell on this. I’m getting really frustrated with constant posts in this subreddit dismissing everyone who isn’t vegan as “not actually antinatalist” and calling people who aren’t vegan “abusers” and “murderers”.
This used to be a place I could come to to talk about how insane it is to create a new human being in the state of the world, now it’s become a place where people are shamed for not having the same diet as someone else. I wouldn’t be making this post if people were being kind and respectful and encouraging people to make the changes they can to reduce their animal product consumption to reduce overall harm. That is not the case.

So please, can we all just be respectful of other people and if you want to encourage someone to try veganism, approach the topic with kindness and respect, people are so much more likely to engage in a reflective discussion about their diets and animal product consumption if they’re not insulted first.

Feel free to comment any of your arguments, I will respond back.