Just curious to see what people think is a good amount for defending an expansion

Hello,

Greetings,

I’m a new sc2 player and I was wondering if anyone has any tips, tricks, etc for Protoss.

Oh and does anybody have any easy build orders I could do?

Thanks

For PvP since 5.0.11 there has been the sentry buff of the current patch. The last patch has a bunch more things most notably the disruptor supply nerf and mothership rework (and to an extent the void ray fix). I'm a bit annoyed PvP resources have mostly been left to rot, even if PvT is where the exciting stuff has happened. That affects both robo and stargate side gameplay -- even if it isn't an insane change to the actual builds it is still a build order change. That being said, I think this does twilight -> robo. And this does stargate -> twilight. But they are a bit out of date, just less so than some of the other stuff. I eventually found that variations on the former are very much in use.

As a result of the issue of PvP resources being old and having issues in the mirror, I decided to take a look at modern professional PvP to see if there is something I can figure out about how that is supposed to be played when not proxying/all-in.

I think in every game I looked at that wasn't phoenix wars or decided by cheese, tech is stargate -> twilight or twilight -> robo or robo -> twilight, so keep that in mind. There may be exceptions if one player goes early DTs, you might see stargate -> robo, but I think that's the main exception. Twilight -> robo is much more common than robo -> twilight.

--

This game, Nightmare vs Creator, is a two-gate expand mirror into from the current patch. So I think this is going to be pretty emblematic of 'standard'. Moreover, it features two different styles that flow out of that (disruptor vs CAI), so this game doesn't just demonstrate mechanics. The match that follows features a third style: pure stalker.

This game seems instructive for something more asymmetric, 3-gate blink vs 1-gate +stargate into expand. Last patch, not current patch though (so no sentry buff, but otherwise pvp isn't very different). Still, I think 1-gate +stargate has to be standard and viable, and if it can survive 3-gate blink it can't be too greedy.

This is a current patch instance of 1 gate +stargate expand, except it kinda isn't because of the pylon block. Short game, but demonstrates the idea and also provides a contrast with the previous link, as that was a defensive game for the 1-gate +stargate player, whereas this is aggressive. 2-gate expand stargate is played by the opponent, something superficially similar to this.

Here's a moment about the sentry change from the casters of herO vs Stats.

And here's another 2-gate expand vs 2-gate expand with some aggressive mindgames. Both players went robo before twilight, I think because of because of the perceived aggression. I'm honestly not entirely sure what the theory is that makes that the play over blink. Send help. I promise this is rare.

--

In general PvP still seems to me to tend more towards proxies than other matchups, to the point where perhaps a proxy build could be considered standard. However, excluding that, I think these are the two tech orders. 1-gate +stargate is definitely more complicated, because it seems depending on the opponent's strategy you need oracles (standard), void rays (vs aggressive ground), or phoenixes (vs stargate).

--

As far as guides go, this is the one resource I was able to find on the 1-gate +stargate opener, but the difference is that the pro games I watched seem to me to go stargate before nexus even if the nexus location is not blocked, unless they know that their opponent is not playing aggressive. This and this are the only spawning tool builds I found similar to this -- which should be illegal for something that is played this much at a high level and is safe. None of this info is current on the sentry change, obviously. The basic ideas are that stargate can be safe and economic, and also two oracles is very hard to defend properly as two stalkers at each base is definitely not enough -- though goblin prefers to cut stargate production for an earlier blink so as not to lose map control to stalkers later in the game.

Here's the anti-stalker-all-in 1-gate +stargate from Classic (though I'm not sure the build timings are all that useful to be honest):

0:18 14-pylon (zerg wall pylon)

0:39 16-gateway (scout)

0:47 17-assimilator

1:05 19-assimilator

1:06 19-pylon (next to assimilator)

1:26 21-cybercore (at wall pylon) -- 3/3 gas, 15/16 minerals, saturate gas before minerals)

2:03 24-stargate (assimilator pylon) -- cut workers at 1-base saturation
                                                    with two extra probes (scout and builder)

2:03 24-stalker

2:12 26-gateway

2:12 26-warpgate

2:22 26-nexus

2:29 26-battery

2:46 26-voidray (the second gateway unit is skipped in favor of the voidray)

2:53 30-pylon -- resumes probe production at 2:57, but cancels upon seeing the proxy gate
                         no more notes about probe production from this point

3:10 30-stalker

3:11 32-battery

3:15 31-forge (probe lost)    

3:28 31-voidray

3:48 35-cannon x2 (on forge completion)

3:59 35-cannon

4:02 37-sentry (first warp-in)

4:17 37-pylon

4:25 37-voidray

4:44 35-robotics facility (lost the sentry)

5:22 36-gateway (lost some probes, made some probes)

5:28 36-immortal

5:45 42-gateway

The Nightmare vs Creator games are going to be the main way I'm going to think about the matchup other than the above, and it is much simpler. I'm going to favor the Creator side for build analysis, because I think adepts aren't as stable of a choice of opening units out of the three options. This is pretty similar to lots of existing stuff on spawning pool. Here's an example, Here's another (with rather useful Harstem video). The actual opener by Creator is as follows:

0:?? 14-pylon

0:38 16-gateway (scout)

0:46 17-assimilator

0:59 18-assimilator

1:08 19-gateway

1:24 21-cybercore -- worker that builds cybercore goes into gas, for 2 workers in each gas. 
                               From this point saturate gases before 16th worker on minerals.

1:33 22-pylon

2:01 24-stalker x2 (cut worker production)

2:01 28-warpgate -- (implied, can't see in the video)

2:01 28-gateway

2:12 28-pylon (next to natural location)

2:26 28-pylon (blocking opponent's natural, won't cancel in this case)

2:31 28-sentry x2

2:46 32-nexus (resume worker production -- Creator loses his scout probe)

2:59 32-battery

3:04 32-stalker    

3:20 34-battery (to stop shade, will cancel)

3:3? 36-robotics facility

3:38 36-pylon

3:58 38-stalker-sentry (first warp-in)

4:16 46-immortal

I think my intention is to do this with twilight, like the Harstem video, but expending some extra resources for the pylon block. It's an ancient build, but apparently from looking at what is going on recently it's normal and effective today.

Open to all MMR Ranges and All Regions

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If I continuously build probes (and chrono them), I almost always end up (massively) oversaturating my mineral lines, because I do not have the minerals to build new Nexi quickly enough; especially when I play a low gas style.

How do you manage this problem?

• Do you cut probes once your existing mineral line is 16/16 to afford a new Nexus?
• Or do you cut probes even earlier so you end up having 16/16 right when the new Nexus finishes (so u don't have to oversature the existing mineral line temporarily)?
• Or do you continue to build probes regardless, even if that means that you have to long-distance-mine from the new Nexus (i.e. when you have 24/16 probes on the existing Nexus)?
• Or other alternatives?

12 pool is not that tricky to defend, but if the z pulls all his drones, he can stack them and attack buildings to tear down walls really quickly... and then I'm dead.

How do we properly defend vs this if
a)We have seen to 12pool coming AND we see he has pulled drones along with it

b)We saw the 12pool lings but didn't see the drone pull until it's nearly at our wallin

Hi all,

I got cheesed yesterday by a Zerg. I don't know the name of it so will try to explain: the zerg built a hatch next to my natural to then built spines to break my wall etc.

I scouted something weird (i think no gas or no B2). So tried to play def: 2 gates, wall fast and get stalkers. But didn't know what I was playing against. When I saw it with the spines, i was too late not enough units to hold it.

What's the best defense?

Even if I'm focused on the minimap, the zerg can just sneak the lings around the scouting adept and hit my nat/main. Thoughts?

I used to play all the time in the WOL days and just came back in and placed into diamond. I’d like to try to run up to master once I learn the LOTV units/meta but don’t know where to start on builds. I’m looking to get one solid build for each matchup can anyone recommend where to look or who to follow? I’ve been on spawning tool but many of the builds are over a year old, and I know the recent patch was supposedly pretty impactful?

I prefer gateway centric builds, and until I get a sense of the meta and new units definitely want to rely on timing attacks.

Sup.

I'm a 4800 Terran looking for Protoss practice partners. I'd say my TvP is about 4500-4600 as I currently have 60% winrates in the other 2 matchups and 40% in TvP.

If you're a 4400-4500+ Protoss and would like some TvP practice, DM me and we can add each other on bnet. Would love to play some games and talk about the matchup.

I'm on NA, but would play on EU as well for practice.

The practice partner subreddit is dead and the tl.net practice partner thread has been dead for years, so I don't really know where else to look for people because people on ladder don't usually want to play.

Hey guys,

What do you do against zergling rush? I mean one-base 12 pool all-in?

Can you hold by pulling probes or?

Thanks

I frequently see it claimed that Ultralisks aren't that good... please share the secret sauce that defeats them!

I'm low D3, and don't have a great understanding of the game. I figure there is a piece I am missing to help it feel a bit less like I'm on a timer to kill the zerg before hive tech.

Thanks in advance for the tips!

(Obligatory replay posted below, featuring my typically lousy macro :). Actually this game my macro was probably better than my average... I think I am usually in a much worse spot when hive tech hits :) )

https://drop.sc/replay/24985971

​

https://clips.twitch.tv/PeacefulCleanClipsmomFrankerZ-mtJayn7D_jL6Sldf

how do i open this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lui3FEKQcE

i downloaded it into a separate folder under multiplayer replays as sc2 file, but when I hover to watch it says the version of sc2 required to open this file is not available.

Any solutions are appreciated

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Let's be realistic looking at the European line up... with serral not participating maxpax doesn't have competition outside reynor...are we about to see a protoss victory? Edit: forgot about clem. Clem reynor maxpax are the likely... protoss is going deep

just getting back into the swing of things after not playing for like a year and a half. can't say ive ever actually been with an early game liberator harass before, which is odd, wasn't sure what to do against it. is it just early stalkers?

Hi all,

​

Like many, I am stuck to my MMR (2.6k Protoss). I am trying to train my macro enough in order to reach diamond level which I guess is between 3 to 3.5k. I think this is the last level you can reach without starting to have a good micro.
And the idea behind all of that is that I don't have time to train a lot. So I considered that macro could be trained enough for 30-45 mins a day to reach diamond.

​

My current BO comes from SC2 PROBES ( Learn to macro like a pro! : Beginner Protoss Build Order Guide (2024) (youtube.com) ) where the main idea is to do a couple of immortals and then zealot with charge + archons while having a warp and then 8 gates (+ increasing the attack).

​

To follow-up my progression I am checking mostly the population I reach at: 3, 4 (and full the mineral at the natural), 5 and most importantly 6, 7 and 8mins. The main goal is to reach 150 by 8 mins.
I also check some other metrics specific to the BO:
- 3.30 starting forge + twilight council
- 4.30 starting the 7 gates + templar archives
- 5 starting warp prism

​

Against no agression (I train against the IA in easy), I constantly reach from 130 to 140 pop at 8mins. I reach the 150 around 8.15 to 8.30.

​

However, I don't feel I progress. For those who manage to leave the low leagues and the others. How do you think or how did you do it? I like to have a mechanical approach based on the macro skills it feels easier for me and more comprehensible.

​

Note: I try to exactly follow the BO, above I described what I think to be the most important thing but I do the adept, the sentinel etc.

Note 2: I am also looking for any distance coaching ( e.g.: checking replays, givind feedbacks, sending specific drills...) :)

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feels impossible. low ground wall is fucking stupid vs protoss if they get it. i really dont know why random isnt just for fun and reveals the race. having race be a secret is game breaking especially when there is 0 wiggle room for a single error as a protoss player and your opening is so important. T and Z feel zero impact vs random but just another hurdle to deal with if you accidently started this game with protoss.

your wall off and opening is EVERYTHING as protoss where as the other races it doesnt matter, you can basically do anything and still win the game because their units are better and they have better comeback mechanics etc. They are not punished by how they wall and terran can always wall the ramp

Hi -- I was hoping someone might help advise me on how to respond in various situations...

I feel like I am playing well, but I just cannot win.

I have been watching and following PiG's B2GM series and really like his emphasis on learning the game. That is what I am trying to do, but just keep on getting punished by builds or things I don't know how to respond to.

I just completed my placements and got placed in Gold 1. My opponents don't feel too good for me.. but my first 3 - 4 games have been disheartening.

I have attached my last 3 matches here -- I am just wondering what I should focus on to do better?

https://lotv.spawningtool.com/82578/

- Most recent game. Soooo long. I decided to go for Chargelot / Archon. Honestly, I felt like I had a fantastic push. Unfortunately, it petered out. Then I wasn't able to punish my opponent or get back in.

- I think this is the point where I got stuck. I immediately expanded and added upgrades. I felt ahead, but just couldn't win.

- I switched into Skytoss and really thought I was going to be able to win the game with it, but didn't quite make it. He killed my whole army and then that was that.

https://lotv.spawningtool.com/82579/

- This game was interesting. I felt good about it. I saw that he was 1-base all-in ing me and tried to respond by switching into tons of unit production and building tons of units.

- yes, in hindsight I should have closed my wall completely and immediately pulled back my oracle

- I also know that my wall was.. not good. Any tips for getting it right every time ? xD

- Anyways... I knew he was cheesing and I was focusing on macro / build order so.... I thought I would win my fight. But the marauders shredded me.

What would have been the strategy here?

https://lotv.spawningtool.com/82580/

- Honestly, this one was frustrating. Here are some notes I wrote up right after the matchup

• 2 collossi, 1 immortal, 36 stalker, 6 sentry @ 10:20
  • My army was stronger than my opponents, but they were turtled in their base (map with 2 base)
  • I don’t know what I should have done
    • I think either try an earlier attack (tricky with the sieged tanks / full wall)
    • Or switch into a big macro game and lock them into their 2 bases (I had already expanded)
  • I rebuilt and attacked killing the 3rd without issue, but he didn’t engage me. I probably could have done a base trade and won, but I used recall, expecting to be able to kill the enemy – instead they killed the half of my army that recalled, and then destroyed my infrastructure while the rest of my army walked back
    • Lessons learned? Maybe add more SBs and Canons for static defense. Better spotting on edges for drops late game

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