Ever since my drinking has been getting worse ive been noticing some weird changes i haven't had like 6 months ago.

When i took a video with proper light for an outfit today, i was honestly almost a little shocked when i looked at my face. I ususally have good skin, as good as the skin of a 16 year old can be, but suddenly it looked oily, unhealthy and kind of pale but red at the same time. And i noticed how the bags under my eyes and my wrinkles have gotten A LOT worse in such a short time. I just look tired or traumatized 24/7 lol. It could also simply be from my unhealthy diet like not eating but consuming lots of caffeine etc or the fact that i have a few other mental problems or something else entirely. But im a bit worried since its actually starting to be noticeable now. I dont know, it just looks different? Not in a good way tho

Posted this in r/siblingsofaddicts but wanted to post here too :)

I'm 25(f) and looking for advice around my brother (28m) who has been living at my parents' house for > a year now. I think he may be addicted to heroin but have sometimes had a hard time convincing my parents of this. For background he is autistic (high-functioning) and diagnosed with mild ADHD. Would appreciate help on people's thoughts about making sense of this situation.

First, he has used heroin (and other drugs) in the past, sometimes to the point of landing in hospital, but when I ask claims to have stopped two years ago. A year ago he moved back in with my parents as his landlord asked him to move out. Since then he was out of work for a while, but has recently got a remote job. He agreed to pay our parents some money to help with costs of rent + food + utilities, but the direct debit doesn't go through and he seems to have no money in his account, despite a relatively well-paid job.

Other signs that make me concerned:

• Unusual sleep patterns, in bed all day with door closed. Comes down for meals but never eats, very underweight. If he does eat he only eats snacks (sweets mainly sometimes crisps).
• Changes in personal hygiene - used to dress nicely and even exercise, now never leaves house and does not change clothing/shower often
• Skin problems: skin is inflamed and seems grey/washed out, bags under eyes
• No longer sees any of his friends

More concrete signs:

• Leaves late at night to random parks and lies about where he is going (I see as we have each other on FindMyiPhone)
• Have found glass pipe, blow torch, tin foil lying around
• Occasionally I've tried to go and talk to him and he has been almost unresponsive, very drowsy and slurred speech

I don't live at home and only come back for short periods to visit. I've tried asking him directly, telling him I won't judge him either way etc but if he wants to talk about it ever I'm always here. He insists he hasn't used drugs for > 2 years.

My parents house him, do his cooking and cleaning, make his doctors appts etc. Sometimes he asks to borrow money from them or other family members (I've encouraged them not to lend it).

Are these signs concrete evidence of an addiction problem, and if so what is the best course of action for me to take/encourage family to take? I've had a hard time convincing others this is an addiction problem and not e.g. signs of depression/difficulties with executive function due to autism/ADHD. Could i be wrong about this?

I (20) have dealt with my father’s (68 M) addictions my entire life, whether it’s alchohol, stimulants or laughing gas. I guess I’m posting on here because I’d like to know if this is mentally handicapping him. He had certainly become more forgetful, his body trembles, and he can’t navigate around by himself as well as he used to. I don’t know if it’s from him aging or what, but he’s got my mom hooked on that bull shit too.

It’s almost impossible to get help from them when it comes to my medical insurance, helping pay for therapy etc because they are always doing this shit and not giving a fuck about their children. I mean it’s always been like that, but I guess it’s especially triggering now. There’s much much more they’ve put me through in terms of their addictions but I just need to know if I can trust them or if I need to start taking care of all of these things by myself, or if It is valid to contact them less.

I just want to heal from all of this but I can’t when they are still doing drugs. I just feel lost and disappointed.

Hello. I’ve been addicted to nic and alcohol for 6 years. I finally ended up getting clean off alcohol and I’m fighting with nicotine. But the nicotine is what makes me the most irritable. I’m making relationships tense and hold resentment because I have no patience for people’s quirks. I don’t want to explain to my family because they don’t understand addiction and they have the world perception of a puppy. I supplement the nic with patches and I hit an old almost burnt vape when the irritability interferes with family. I want nothing to do with my family and am holding more and more resentment toward them. I disregard them like they aren’t even human. Yeah before I started quitting I was ok with everyone and I got along well but since I set my mind on quitting and acting out I feel as though I’ve ruined people perception of me and I don’t want to fix it. I’d rather it heal without mentioning it once my brain is able to produce its own dopamine.

Thank you

I didn't drink aside from socially until the last 1.5yrs. It has slowly increased to the point of having roughly 8 shots a day. I think I was self medicating because of ongoing health issues and depression regarding my dad's death. I WANT to stop! I know that stopping cold turkey can be dangerous when it comes to alcohol and need advice of how to safely taper down. I don't want to be like this anymore!

Hey everyone,

For those who haven't seen my previous posts, I'm Echo. I am a 20-year-old male, and 11 days ago I decided to better my life and my future by starting my journey of quitting my addiction to porn and masturbation. I share and post my journey with you guys in this community in the form of daily reports on how and what I'm doing to stop my addiction. I do this because I want to encourage and motivate others to do what I am trying to do and better their lives by starting a journey of their own to quit their addiction.

So, on day 12 of no PMO, I felt quite tired today actually. Don't get me wrong, I had energy, but I felt like I couldn't take advantage of that energy as much as I usually would. I had barely any urges to relapse today, but I'm sure that'll change later in the week. As usual, today I did my daily routine of exercise in the morning, some work, and household chores. But then the delivery of my new fridge that I told you guys about in my previous posts arrived, and oh boy….saying that it was a sh*t show is an understatement. So the fridge was delivered in the morning, and when it came, two skinny teenagers brought it out of the truck and put it in the driveway with a small platform trolley that looked like it was held together by hopes and dreams.

Now the thing is that there are a lot of stairs leading up to the front door of my house and before they come and try to deliver, I have to make sure the access to my house can be accommodated for the fridge size for them to install it. There is a small security gate that leads to the swimming pool and the stairs to the front door of my house, so I measured everything to make sure that the fridge would be able to go in the house and on paper, it said it would, I also took many photos and sent it to the delivery guys to ask if access will be a problem, they said it would be perfectly fine. Now the problem is….well the first problem is that the fridge is 180kg or 396lbs. For some bizarre reason, the delivery company thought two skinny teenagers and a half-dead trolley would be able to lift it up and move it up two flights of stairs. The second problem is that the delivery guys couldn't get it through the front gate that I measured to be able to fit the fridge. They tried for about half an hour to get it through the gate, then they said to me that it was no use trying because I measured it wrong and I bought too big and heavy of a fridge for them to move. They then went on to tell me that I needed to now buy a smaller fridge so they could pick it up, like are they serisous!?

Then, I asked them which side of the fridge they were trying to fit through the gate. They said the longer side, and I asked if they tried the smaller-length side of the refrigerator. Those dumbasses didn't even think of turning the fridge 90 degrees to see if it would fit through the gate….it fit. They then said they could not do the job because the refrigerator was too heavy. I asked if they could get some more workers here to help, and yet again, they didn't think of that. One hour later….and yes, it took another hour, they got three other people to help move the fridge. And for the people in the comment section asking why I didn't help them, well…I did ask if I could help to move it. They refused for me to help due to “legal reasons”. They finally managed to get it into the house after another 40 minutes, but not before they almost dropped the entire fridge into the pool.

So yeah, it's been quite an eventful day. That is all for today's update. Sorry for another fridge rant lol. Anyway, as always, please feel free to share your story, ask me questions, or just dm me if you want to talk to someone. Please don't hesitate to contact me; I would love to speak to any of you guys who want to talk or have any questions. Any advice is always appreciated.

Thank you so much for reading this and for your support from my previous posts!

Non diagnosed but highly suspect I have adhd and that I’ve been self-medicating my entire life, from alcohol to all sorts of stimulants (recreational and otherwise). For one reason or another however I’ve never been tested and sought formal treatment. I don’t have health insurance nor the income to go down that route now either.

Anyway, I’ve been reaching for the Sudafed lately for migraines as it’s the only painkiller I have to hand at the moment and I realized I’ve felt much more calmer/steadier on it, not constantly jumping from one thing to another and actually able to focus and stay in the present. I like it much more than modafinil, which messes with my emotions too much (almost like molly).

From what I’ve read it seems to be safe in a pinch, but not recommended for long term use. My question is are there any similar alternatives that might be available OTC that others have had luck with? I don’t need to take it every day, but a few days of the week with some extra support would be game changing.

I'm addicted to Pepsi. Without Pepsi I feel tired, lazy, boring, and slow. It's basically my energy booster for every day. But sadly I have to quit drinking it or at least take a break from it. Any healthy alternative you guys have in mind?

Anyone is familiar with this substance? It is in some medications like Conventine and Gabtin. Anyone knows what is the withdrawal symptoms of this substance if there is any???

I’m addicted to 18+ self doing stuff… you know the drift.

Everything is fine in the morning.

I’ll be cleaning, watching movies or even exercising….

But once it’s 3AM…. The other side gets hold of me.

It’s even gotten to the point where I’ve made content on Reddit (this is my “SFW” account lol) but you know what I mean right?

My plan is to delete tg (telegram) off my phone- there’s an option for it to delete by itself. You just need to do some settings on it.

It’s gonna be for a month and then go bye bye.

I don’t know how it’s going to be sticking but I really hope so-

Any tips from you guys would help too!

Thank you!

I just turned 40 years old today. Most of my 20s and 30s I have abused alcohol and some of the years amphetamines. I’ve had a wake up call after getting blood tests in the past 6 to 9 months with elevated cholesterol and triglycerides in addition to elevated liver enzymes.

I would like to have a second chance at life, living a healthy life. I don’t want to die in my 50s or 60s (even 40’s god forbid).

Is there anyone out there who can relate to this? I need to know that there is still hope for the future. 🙏🏼💙

So I’m about to hop on subs and I want to do a 7 day taper i just forgot how my last rehab did it, can you guys help?? Pls.. I just need to know when to cut my sub and what dose as well.. like on the third day I start taking half and cut the dose??

So I got addicted to Frettu again smh! I remember when I was in rehab they gave me subutex and within a day of being there I took the subtext and I was only on the subutex for one week because they winged me off of it and I want to do that again so I just want somebody to help me wing off the subutex like once I get the 2mg subs how much do I take daily to wing off within a week

So I’ve been staying up late at night and going to bed around 430am and waking up after I feel well rested. I’ve been enjoying being up late at night by myself and it’s when I’m most creative (I’m a painter) It’s so much easier to focus.

I slept 13 hours this morning and I’m not sure if it’s from not having caffeine or if my new sleep schedule is the cause. I’ve been caffeine free and staying up late for over a week now. In a week I will be getting a sleep test done at home to see why I have been having night hallucinations as I wake from sleep. This seems to have been withdrawals from quitting marijuana because of the time frame when it started. I smoked everyday for 10+ years.

This has been a great year for making healthy changes but I feel my body is angry with me. Haha!!! I will say that after waking up from 13 hours of sleep I have a lot of energy that I did a lot of cooking (2 dinners and cookies) and did some painting. Please tell me that the withdrawals from giving up caffeine will get easier because I feel much more calm. I just don’t want to sleep my life away. Thanks guys! 🤗

I was sober for almost a year and then boom I got stressed out and used. My gf wasn't supposed to come over and ended up coming over and saw me high. She got all upset and the night just went to shit. Now she broke up with me and won't take me back or even hear me out. I keep trying to talk and she won't even give me a chance. She says that it's a hard boundary for her and she's not going to tolerate it so I need to get help and we can't be together. I'm just so fucking tired of this shit. I get sober feel fine and then it happens again. Idk how to navigate this shit. Everything feels like a bandaid and then I get stressed and have a weak moment. I'm just tired of it all. Depression is a bitch addiction is a bitch and I hate myself more and more for being so weak.

I'm not trying to escape accountability by any means necessary for getting high. I shouldn't have done it. I have serious shit to lose. I just got my life back on track and a job I like. It's not worth it to use. I haven't used since that night and it was like 3 months ago. She still won't hear me out. Just feels like I'm spiraling here. Idk. I just hate this shit. Everytime I use I fuck up my life and damage relationships. Idk why I can't just stop. It shouldn't be this hard but it is.

i need advice desperately. my husband of 3 years is an ex drug addict mainly heroin but also anything on the planet (besides alcohol) - he never really liked it. he’s been completely sober for 6 years. we dated back when he was addicted and for obvious reasons had to split up.

as of about a month ago, he picked up “casual” drinking, which is true, he’ll have about 2 drinks most nights he isn’t on shift. (he’s a firefighter). he doesn’t really go too overboard. however, he told me when we first started dating again that if he picked up anything ever again to pack me and the (metaphorical) kids up and leave (we didn’t have a kid at the time but we now have a 5 month old baby girl).

i’ve been getting annoyed recently whenever he drinks because he gets very annoying drinking and doesn’t know when to stop pushing buttons. i expressed this to him but he feels he doesn’t do that and “deserves a drink”. just tonight he hid a bottle of whiskey in our garage after i told him to not get beer tonight.

i need advice on what to do. i don’t have a problem giving him an ultimatum, i just don’t know if i’m overreacting and traumatized from his past. please help!

Literally everybod I know drinks. I really need to quit as it turned into a problem.

Can someone please identify this? My brother still lives with my parents, and I found this just playing in the spare bathroom. He is obviously on drugs, and my parents are in denial. My other brother has said he has been up at all hours of the night being loud and saying off the wall things on repeat, but then has seen him literally passed out. His teeth are ruined and he has sores.

He has no insurance. Are there any resources to get him help in East TN?

If there has been one quote that keeps me going throughout, it is this. For the LOTR fans you know this one well, to those who don't I highly recommend checking out this scene from ROTK out on YouTube. This quote is said by Samwise in a moment where all seems lost and that evil has triumphed. In a moment of courage he utters those words above and against all odd's defeats evil. Whatever we find ourselves addicted to keeps us in a prison, a back breaking prison where hope seems lost. For me it took many years of denial, anger and hopelessness to finally get fed up with what was taking control over me and finally saying to myself, this is enough I choose life. For Frodo the ring was his cross to bear, much like addiction is ours. If there is anyone out there hurting, just know that it does get better. For those whose addictions have left them tired, drained and hopeless I hope this post can give you the strength and courage to be rid of it, once and for all.

Long story short I used to smoke a lot of weed daily and had been smoking since the age of 14, I am now 25 I stopped just over a month ago and just starting to get over the withdrawals but this has only made my other addictions worse. I am drinking alot more and smoking cigarettes to combat the urge to have a joint and I feel I’ve made the wrong choice. Should I just go back to weed and cut out alcohol or stick with what I am doing, someone please help I’m lost atm

Tried nic for the first time yesterday. It was fucking awful. I'm not craving it, but I have butterflies in my stomach. I'm also thinking about other things at the party so it might be that, but I was just wondering if that's a sign of addiction.

Hi there

I am a recovering porn/masturbation addict. I first learnt to masturbate when I was 5 years old when I was with some family friends who were a couple of years older than me and showed me how to do "it". Since then, masturbation has been a constant part of my life. Fast forward 22 years later, where I am 27, married and I think have built a good life for myself. However, only recently I have come to realization that I have been addicted to porn/masturbation. Whenever I had a spare chance by myself or felt maybe slightly anxious, I would watch a porn video or look people up on Instagram (of people I knew or even female friends that both my wife and I knew) just to get that hit of sensation (disgusting, you don't have to tell me).

It took a hit on my marriage and relationship whereby I wouldn't be able to climax as quickly, or I would need to finish off myself. In the end, I have expressed the above issues to my wife, to which at first, she was disgusted but has since forgiven me and understands I haven't been “well” and just wants me to get better. Kind of amazing how understanding and compassionate she is. But I think she also appreciates the honesty and the fact that I have realized this and want to be better. Nevertheless, I still suffer everyday with the guilt and shame of my actions and how “sick” I was.

I have since started to see a psychiatrist/therapist to which he has prescribed me with some anti-depressants just to deal with my depression as I don't go a day without crying or feeling so ashamed of who I was and what I was doing. It was disgusting and creepy (I hate myself so much for it). My psychiatrist stated that when you have such an addiction you don’t even look at the consequences or understand what you are doing half the time, it’s all impulse and the thrill/dopamine overrides you.

Overall, he believed that the addiction stems from multiple things:

1. the trauma of never meeting my biological father as he was murdered before I was born
2. being shown/exposed to this sexual behavior at such a young age (age of 5). I was also surrounded by a family that maybe normalized sexual behaviours I guess, not saying I was directly a victim of that, but just indirectly as a child being exposed to certain things maybe twisted my mind from a young age.
3. not getting validation and generally not feeling like you belonged. I won’t go into much detail about this one but essentially, all my life I feel I have been an outsider in which I don’t belong and as a result find that those closest to me even though they might show me love, will end up leaving.

Again, I am not making excuses for my actions, but maybe trying to find reason with my addiction.

My question to you is, how did you overcome the self-guilt/shame of your addiction and your past. I still feel sick to my stomach the type of person I was. I have people that love me, and I understand the whole “it's not your fault and you were sick”, which I guess that's true, but I just struggle every single day to forgive myself and move forward, even though I am taking steps to be better. I will say though, since starting therapy 2-3 months ago I haven't relapsed nor had the urge to masturbate or recontinue doing what I was doing (even watching porn), and I guess in a way I feel proud of that effort.

I won't lie, some days I think of just ending my life, but I try and find gratitude. My wife, who is standing so proud beside me despite the pain I have caused, as well as both my family and her family who are very supportive of me. They all keep me from ending it.

I never thought I would be as depressed as I am today, but here we are. I just hope it gets better.

I appreciate your responses.

FYI this is a burner account for obvious reasons.

My (26F) boyfriend (36M) of almost a year and a half has some serious addictions I wasn’t aware of in the beginning. I knew he had a past with these things, but he made it seem like it was in the past. He is a heavy drinker and meth user and doesn’t seem to want help. There’s been infidelity on his end with a recent ex that I feel was driven by his addictions, although I do think that’s stopped because he was hit with some pretty heavy consequences after it all came out (arrested for drugs, lost me for awhile, lost access to his daughter, etc.).

I feel like I should’ve walked away completely at that point in time but seeing that he was a broken person that has been struggling made me feel compassion towards him. I slowly forgave him but now it’s come out that he’s a daily user, I’ve found meth almost every time I’m around him, and it’s all empty promises about wanting to quit and he’ll get serious about quitting.

I feel like I have to walk away because as someone who doesn’t use substances, this is very heartbreaking and hard for me. I just wish he’d see how terrible this has been for his life, and how much everyone loves him, and want to stop hurting all of us through his choices.

Any advice on what to do in this situation? Is leaving for the best? It doesn’t seem like I’m getting through to him by sticking around.

Is he capable of changing after being an addict for almost 15 years? He’s quit other addictions in the past and remains clean but these two things were never one.

Will bringing him closer to God help? I’ve been trying to do this but he fights it although he’s been a Christian ever since he was a child, I just don’t think he has an intimate relationship with Him.

I just have no idea how to deal with this as I love him so much but this hurts me so much at the same time. Anyone that has advice, I’d greatly appreciate it. I have a hard time understanding from his perspective since I’ve never had an addictive gene

I’m trying to get sober again after a Summer of abusing several substances, the most toxic being alcohol, cocaine and ketamine.

I’ve been trying to quit all Summer but I kept relapsing due to the pressures of work and school and family functions. I’m an extremely functional addict (to the point where I can even go to work and school on ketamine and have never been caught or called out). Which is actually more of curse then a blessing because I feel like it’d be easier to quit if I wasn’t so good at hiding things and taking care of my responsibilities while using.

When I try to be clean for a few days, I’m expecting and able to deal with the low dopamine levels and depression, I’m not necessarily afraid of feeling bad emotions all the time, but I keep getting more drugs because I feel so incredibly TIRED that I can’t focus on school or do homework and find work and socializing to be extremely difficult because of how tired I am, constantly yawning and in a daze.

And I feel very guilty about potentially letting my Classmates, coworkers, family and friends down by not being my normal self, so then I justify picking up “one more bag” to get through this day/week etc.

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for keeping energy levels up (other than caffeine/energy drinks, those make it worse for me) while trying not to use? Just energy specifically.

Hi guys,

So I have always been in the hunt for something to help me with mental health. I would buy vitamins, dietary supplements, natural remedies, whatever i seen that had the potential of lifting your mood.

One day I went into the smoke shop to buy a vape, and they had a big banner for a new product. It stated it helped with cognitive function, anxiety, and mood booster. It was a dietary supplement. I figured i would try it.

Took it & fell in love with it. It was like i found the missing piece. This stuff made my worries go away, ans I literally was the happiesrt i have been in forever.

I started taking daily, and increasinf dosage. After a couple weeks, i told myself i need to kick back. Decided not to take any. All the sudden, i go into withdrawals. Wrh?!

I look uo the active ingredient which is TIANEPTINE. I never heard if this. Come to find out, it is a synthetic opioid. Withdrawals are brutak, and I am so scared to tell anyone about this. I never had an issue with drugs, but I let myself get addicted to this stuff.

Please help guys. I dont know how to quit while being a full time husband, father, employee.

I can not believe this stuff is legal…

Hi! My name is Kristen & I am a doctoral student at National University. As the child of an addict & a woman who is in recovery from an AUD, myself, I know that many of us who struggle with addiction grew up with parent/s or guardian/s who also struggle/d with addiction. To generate findings that will be used help members of our community, I am seeking study participants who would like to complete a brief (~10 minute) anonymous online survey to identify factors that increase resiliency among adult children of alcoholics (ACoA).

To participate please click on the following link:

https://ncu.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_82qZb0pqJUyxzeu

The purpose of the study is to identify protective factors that have improved resiliency for individuals who grew up with a parent or parents (or guardian/s) who misused alcohol in order to create evidence-based programs designed to benefit countless members of our population. The help ACoA have offered has been incredibly moving and inspiring! I just need ~30 more people to complete my survey.

PLEASE NOTE: All participants will have access to the study results and write-up. I will post a link to this information here (and in all places I recruited participants from) in order to ensure everyone can review the results of this study as soon as they are available. 

To be eligible to participate, you must (1) read English; (2) be age 18 or older; (3) be able to complete a survey using the internet; (4) live or have lived in the U.S. at some point in your life (do not have to be born in the U.S.); (5) had a parent/s or guardian/s who misused alcohol or had an alcohol use disorder at any time during the first 18 years of your life (you can participate if your parent/s used other substances along with alcohol). 

If you are uncertain of whether you are an ACoA, six (Yes or No) questions in the survey will determine if you meet the criteria (or, if you are certain you are an ACoA simply click 'Yes' on question 7 in the first set of questions in the survey). Research shows at least 50% of all adults in the U.S. are ACoA, yet members of the general population often have an incorrect view of the traits and outcomes of children of alcoholics. Will you please help set this record straight by completing the survey or by sharing this information with individuals who are ACoA?

The survey is 100% anonymous, should ~10 minutes to complete, and will ask about your (a) exposure to protective factors while growing up, (b) exposure to risk factors while growing up, (c) resiliency levels currently, and (d) non-identifying demographic questions.

This study has been approved by the Institutional Review Board (#IRB-FY24-25-17). If you have any questions regarding the survey, please feel free to ask in the comments, DM me, or email me at: K.Flannery1712@o.365.ncu.edu

PLEASE share with others who may be eligible to participate! THANK YOU for taking the time to make a difference by participating in this research that will help countless children and adults who belong to the amazing population of individuals known as children of alcoholics! Your help is sincerely and greatly appreciated!

Kindest regards, 

Kristen Marie Flannery, M.A., Doctoral Candidate 

I feel it changed mine and am wondering if anyone else is struggling with the same thing. I used to be very talkative, a little more outgoing, I could make friends and keep up with them and I enjoyed spending time with my family. Now I keep to myself, I speak when spoken to or when I have a question, I can barely crack a joke and I feel a lot more boring unfortunately. I was addicted to adderall from 16-19.

The title. Most people I've talked to, their addicted loved ones smoked meth. My recent ex snorts it. Is there any difference in effects?

Has anyone gotten into a relationship while addicted just because you weren’t thinking straight and you wanted love and comfort?

Now being two weeks sober, I’ve realized I don’t really like this person and they are in love with me.

The only time I showed love back is when I was using. And I feel horrible because it was a facade. I’ve never done anything like this before. I feel scandalous af. This is not me to show fake love but now I feel like I’m in too deep.

He is not an addict and hasn’t been around addicts to see that I have been abusing drugs and alcohol and hiding it. I don’t want to break his heart but I don’t think this is what I want.

I feel horrible on top of the withdrawals and just emotions of being sober. Now I feel stuck in this relationship because it would break my heart to hurt him. Any advice would help.

I feel so horrible. I am his first love, so it adds on an extra layer of heartbreak for him. What do I do..

Can cocaine+alcohol make you a big a**hole for days after use? Or those people are just inherently toxic?