/r/4bt

Photograph via snooOG

The Cummins 4bt

This subreddit is based on learning more about the 4bt as well as finding help for 4bt swaps.

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/r/4bt

189 Subscribers

5

Update!

This sub is under new management and I would love to have some purple chime in about things they would like to see done!

1 Comment
2021/06/22
04:21 UTC

3

r/4bt needs moderators and is currently available for request

If you're interested and willing to moderate and grow this community, please go to r/redditrequest, where you can submit a request to take over the community. Be sure to read through the faq for r/redditrequest before submitting.

0 Comments
2019/11/21
08:28 UTC

2

Anyone out there?

I see a few posts from 3 years ago, and one from 8 months. Is anyone still following this? Are any mods still active?

2 Comments
2017/06/08
04:25 UTC

2

How hard is it to change a head gasket in my marine 4BT?

I have moderate mechanical experience, but I have never taken a head off.

0 Comments
2016/09/13
18:16 UTC

4

What kind of MPG can I expect?

Can one use veggie oil also? thanks.

10 Comments
2014/04/13
22:13 UTC

2

Cooling System

At some point the cooling system needs to be addressed. Since all car radiators work the same way, its just a matter of sizing the appropriately sized radiator.

If your swap vehicle has a roughly equivalent sized radiator, odds are it will work. The key things to look for when selecting a radiator is that the inlet and outlet ports are the same size or larger than the 4BT water pump inlet and outlet return on the top of the block. As long as the radiator ports are equal in size or bigger, then your restriction lies in the engine.

One thing to look for is the size and depth of the radiator. Since the radiator works as a heat exchanger, the more depth and surface area the radiator has, the greater heat exchange capability the radiator has.

If an aftermarket radiator is needed, check to see if your vehicle came with a larger engine and use the radiator for that model.

Once the radiator is installed, the correct hose should be selected. If you have a friend at your LAPS, this is the time to call in a favor and head to the back of the store. Take a page from the old hot rodders book - make a template of the hoses you think you will need. It is possible to take segments of different hoses and use hard tubing or pipe to make a coolant hose, however the more connections in a system the more prevalent it is to leaking.

The radiator will need a fan - ultimate selection in a fan is dependant on the utility of the vehicle. Most will go with an electric unit that is independantly controlled, the rest will go with a direct bolt on, or a clutch style fan.

If the vehicle is going to see water crossing, then the swapper needs to address the situation accordingly, depending on the amount of water the vehicle will be in. Ideally an electric fan will work best for this situation as they can be disabled, however a clutch style can also be utilized.

Nearly any coolant can be used, but make sure it has anti corrosion additives to prevent rusting in the water jacket.

0 Comments
2014/01/20
00:16 UTC

5

Fuel System

Addressing the fuel system -

Fortunately diesel fuel systems are pretty simple. Since the 4bt uses the VE rotary pump it does not have inlet pressure requirements that other models have. IIRC, the VE requires as little as 3-5psi and can actually operate as its own lift pump - however this is changed as soon as aftermarket mods are installed. Maximum pressure to the VE pump should be no more than 20psi - exceeding this pressure may result in blowing out fuel seals inside the VE pump.

Just to be on the safe side my plan is to install a 6bt diaphragm pump - the same found on most agricultural setups. One could go with an electric pump but for the sake of simpler systems (KISS) I will use the diaphragm pump as it bolts on to the side and uses the engine to create vacuum/pressure.

Dodge 6BT diaphragm pump part#: HFP274

Current thoughts are 2:

  • keep factory setup
  • in bed fuel pump

If going with the factory setup, there will be a bit of work needed. The in tank pump will need to be removed (since most EFI system use up to 30 psi and that much pressure could damage the VE pump) and all the factory lines will need to be replaced. Lines will most likely be 1/4 or 5/16" as flow is more important than pressure.

If going with an in bed tank ( 40-100 gallon tank/tool box combo) - the factory system will need to be removed. However, this presents a problem as now there is no factory sending unit. Depending on the in bed tank configuration, the factory sending unit could be installed in the tank and modified for this purpose, however there is a good deal of work required for this. The advantage of an in bed tank are mainly the removal of an under vehicle fuel tank (for offroading) and running the fuel above the pump so it always has a fresh supply. However, this also means that on steep inclines/descents, the vehicle will need at least 1/2 tank of fuel in order to not run out of fuel.

The fuel lines can be run via the existing routes the factory lines were run, and into the same holes in the firewall. For an offroad vehicle where terrain is rough, it is recommended to run the lines along the cab rails or frame rails where they can be protected.

Standard return line from the injection rail will ensure any unused fuel is returned back to the tank.

One important thing to remember is the proper pressure relief valve. Diesel is combustible under pressure, so a good vent is required to ensure that both vacuum lock and over pressurization do not occur. Per my interpretation of [FMCSA] (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.67) regulations, a maximum tank pressure of 50psi is allowed. Recommended vent cap pressure should be between 20-35psi. Things to be careful of are too low of a pressure cap and during hot days fuel will be lost through venting, too high of a pressure rating may result in the cap flying off during removal and potential personal injury.

Fittings to the pump will be SAE or JIC style, as well as fittings on the tank will be SAE of JIC. While NPT threads are more common, the potential for an improper seat is greater than with an a JIC or SAE fitting. Return rail on injectors will be adapted to JIC or SAE. Ultimately cost of fitting will determine which is used.

0 Comments
2014/01/12
02:14 UTC

5

Planning the build list

As this is an ongoing project for myself, I plan on starting with an outline of a generic build list for most SUV style RWD vehicles. Keep in mind that this will change, but for most applications it is up to date. All the information is available, and in cases where specifics are used I will do my best to provide references.

The following systems will need to be addressed:

  • Fuel
  • Electrical
  • Cooling
  • Air
  • Transmission
  • Engine
  • Drivetrain/suspension

Fuel: If the vehicle was previously powered by a diesel engine, little or no modification will be needed. All hoses/connections should be addressed.

If the vehicle was a gasoline engine, the tank will need to be dropped and thoroughly cleaned out. Take this time to inspect your sending unit - if need be replace the sending unit and replace any hoses inside the sending unit to be capable of handling diesel fuel (if you plan on using biodiesel, you will need to check seal compatability as well as hose compatability).

Fuel lines and hoses - most vehicles use a combination of rubber lines and solid lines to transport fuel. A diesel engine can require more fuel than a gasoline engine, depending on mods planned. All fuel hoses should be replaced and any solid lines should be thoroughly cleaned out. Be sure that the replacement hose is rated for diesel fuel. The 4bt has its own mechanical lift pump, so if your vehicle has an electrical fuel pump it will not be needed. Vulcan performance sells a Draw Straw for the Ram trucks that replaces the in tank fuel pump. While this might not work for your application, they can be easily made with a little bit of magyvering.

Make sure to replace all chassis grommets when installing new fuel lines. Nothing sucks more than having a busted fuel line 20K miles down the road when your in the middle of the desert.

Electrical: The electrical system is broken down into 2 main parts - engine electrical and chassis electrical. Chassis electrical will remain the same, however a wiring diagram will need to be located for the engine to connect the engine into the chassis. For gauges, see engine electrical.

The biggest thing to consider is your second battery mount. A 4BT needs around 1200CCA (IIRC) and this can be achieved by 1 battery, however many recommend that you get 2 batteries and exceed this. When installing 2 batteries, all engine wiring (starter, charger, accessory) wiring should be checked and replaced to accomodate for the increase in amperage. Failure to do this may result in an electrical fire.

If you plan on doing any aftermarket accessories, this is the time to start doing amperage calculations and running wires.

Engine Electrical: The 4bt needs 2 sources of voltage, the fuel plunger on the injection pump (this can be replaced with a manual plunger if need be) and 12 volts for the starter and starter solenoid. Some engines may come with an independant wiring harness for gauges - this is not needed. If you wish to use your original voltage/temp/oil pressure gauges found in your swap vehicle, simply take the sensors out of the removed engine and find appropriate fittings to install them into the 4bt. This can be a fairly daunting task and may require some fabrication. It is not recommended to use the 4bt sending units as they may not talk to your chassis gauges. If you wish to have a tach sensor, you will need to get a tach sensor kit - however many pass on needing one.

If you have a newer vehicle (OBD2 +) and have a "Lie O Meter" you will need to do some further research. Since there is no computer controlling the functions of the 4bt (this will be different with a 6 ISB if you are going this route) it will not be able to calculate all the factors needed in determining these values.

Cooling: Cooling a diesel engine is a bit more tasking than cooling a small block gasoline engine. Many choose to use their factory radiators which may be adequate, so long as it meets the necessity of the engine. There are many radiator calculators available and with some common sense one can determine whether the radiator will work. It is not uncommon to find a 6BT or other diesel radiator and replace the one in the swap vehicle. If you source your engine from a donor vehicle, you can use that radiator so long as it works properly and is not blocked by the front of the vehicle. New coolant hoses should be installed on the engine - ensure they are of the proper rating so you don't have any problems down the road. An old hot rodder showed me a trick of taking old hoses and cutting them up to make a simple radiator hose mock up - then heading to the LAPS and seeing what they have.

Fans: Either the traditional engine fan or electric fans may be used. Keep in mind that both have the advantages and disadvantages. If you the vehicle is being planned for an offroad or extreme duty vehicle it is recommended to use electric fans in the event of high water.

Air: Diesel engines work better positively aspirated - so therefore you have 2 options:

  • Intercooler
  • No Intercooler

If you choose an intercooled option, there are countless intercoolers available on the market. Keep in mind that much like the cooling system, this will require some fabbing. It is not recommended to make your own pressure pipes as these need to be appropriately pressure tested, instead purchase elbows or other turbo kits available on the market. This can be very time consuming.

Intercoolers can be scavenged off of donor vehicles (the isuzu NPR's are very easy to install) while the 6BT/ISB guys are occasionally known for scavenging Powerstroke intercoolers. There is also the coolant style that can be used - it all depends on your preference.

Non intercooled - provides a much easier solution for your positive aspiration, and unless your planning on making power - is going to be your best bet (IMHO).

Transmission: With the advent of CAD and CNC machines we have adapter plates, and companies that can make custom adapter plates. This means you can use dam near whatever transmission you want to use, so long as it does not need a computer to run. Many swappers use NV4500's, or 46 and 47RE auto transmissions as they mate right up. If you do choose a 46 or 47re transmission, make sure to have it either gone through or purchase an aftermarket trans rated for your torque so your not stuck in the dust.

Should you choose a manual, it can get a little tricky with mounting, but that is once you are ready to put everything in. The NV4500 is a great trans and is not uncommon in 6BT/ISB tractor pull trucks.

Engine: Now for the big one - the engine. 4BT's are available in a number of vehicles, but most commonly 2 ton box/bread delivery trucks. Most run around $2-3K for the whole truck. What you do with it is up to you, but odds are your going to get the whole thing.

Once you pull the engine, I recommend replacing all major seals and gaskets - nothing sucks more than an oil leak down the road. This will be covered in more detail later on, but be prepared to do some research and some wrench turning. Good news is there are lots of part options and many 6BT parts will work on the 4BT for power.

Drivetrain/Suspension: This is not as important but does need to be addressed. The 4BT weighs ~850lbs - so it is recommended to have all the suspension in the vehicle addressed. If your turning 250K on the chassis and never done any work, take this time to start shopping. Many recommend Dana 40+ series axles for 4x4's (or equivalent) as they are capable of handling the weight. There are many other options available, but this needs to be a major determining factor in vehicle selection as its whats going to keep you going down the road.

With the power and torque of the 4BT, tall gears (4.11's+) are not necessarily needed for <35" tires. So if your pushing over 4.5's + you may want to think about regearing. There have been reports of around 30 mpg from some vehicle owners running conservative sized tires..

This is going to be the template for which I plan to start more detailed lists, parts, and references - so keep visiting for more updates as they come!

2 Comments
2013/12/17
05:17 UTC

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